Will you double up on Mechs with the new skill trees?

Thread in 'MechWarrior Online' started by skribs, Jan 12, 2017.

  1. Michael

    Michael Grand Poobah

    4,835
    829
    234
    So do you vet players feel like you are now having to climb the mountain all over again?
     
  2. Shock

    Shock Patron of the Underdog Staff Member

    870
    353
    171
    Not yet as the system hasn't been finalized. I guess we'll see when March rolls around
     
  3. skribs

    skribs Min-Max Maniac

    1,685
    164
    48
    Yes. If the numbers stay.
     
  4. Thibideau Osis

    Thibideau Osis Star Lord

    102
    12
    122
    Not sure it is really worth doing over, I mean it is just a pure money grab by PGI expecting people to rather use MC than all that grinding again. But at the core, it will kill the game for the majority of new players.

    If they do this, the death spiral will start as they really needed to spend the effort elsewhere.

    S!
     
  5. Michael

    Michael Grand Poobah

    4,835
    829
    234
    That is unfortunate but will simply make the process of transitioning to Battletech that much more important :)
     
    Thibideau Osis, Excalibaard and Shock like this.
  6. skribs

    skribs Min-Max Maniac

    1,685
    164
    48
    I should clarify, I'm with Thibideau. It is not a mountain worth climbing again.
     
  7. Blagg Zear

    Blagg Zear Star Lord

    5,001
    578
    199
    I think there will be some good improvements incoming from the PTS Event. It sounds like that atm in the official Forum.

    Let's See if the Skill Tree stays as it is. IMO if they can remove the XP Cost for Respec completely and lower the CBills Costs to a really Small price so Respec feels not Like another Grind Wall, and furthermore remodel the Skill Tree into something more flexible but also low-complex System, it surely has more Potential than the current Model with 3 Variants to unlock "Master" + Modules + Quirks.

    $ should be gained by more and high-quality Gameplay- & cosmetic content. But Not by raising a Mechlab Tax!
     
    Excalibaard and Aylek like this.
  8. Shock

    Shock Patron of the Underdog Staff Member

    870
    353
    171
    I cant see them doing much with the skill trees themselves in only a couple of weeks. Any changes they make will be down in the details, not the overall design
     
  9. skribs

    skribs Min-Max Maniac

    1,685
    164
    48
    You get refunded the xp when you respec.
     
  10. skribs

    skribs Min-Max Maniac

    1,685
    164
    48
    Blagg Zear likes this.
  11. Riscy

    Riscy Benefactor

    156
    38
    33
    Pretty much if the skill tree comes in as it is in the PTS. I'm out.

    Quirks should always have a +ve and -ve component otherwise everything moves towards high alpha single weapon system optimisation.

    What I don't understand is that people want a level playing field (i.e. stock mode) and enjoy it. Taking the meta into quirks is just batshit crazy, why do that?
     
    Excalibaard likes this.
  12. Blagg Zear

    Blagg Zear Star Lord

    5,001
    578
    199
    So you know the Skills Grid in TL2?

    3 Skill Tree Branches, Each Leaf is a Grid System
    No Dependencies inbetween Skills. With a Hard Skills Points Cap in each Skill Tree "Branch" the Player can be forced to think of a Good Combo and so decide wisely how to invest his precious Skill Points to unlock specific Skills. Level Up Buttons for XP to Boost the Effect/Efficiency.

    Let's get more concrete with an Example:

    Branch1: Weapons (4x4 Grid = 16 Skills)
    • Energy Range
    • Energy Cooldown
    • Laser Beam Duration
    • PPC Velocity
    • Ballistic Range
    • Ballistic Cooldown
    • Ballistic Velocity
    • UAC Jam Chance
    • MG ROF
    • Flamers Heat
    • Missile Range
    • Missile Cooldown
    • Missile Spread
    • (S)SRM Velocity
    • Air Strike & Artillery Accuracy
    • Improved Air Strike & Artillery
    Branch2: Movement & Sensors (4x4 Grid = 16 Skills)
    • Kinetic Burst
    • Hard Brake
    • Speed Tweak
    • Twist X
    • Twist Speed
    • Arm Reflex
    • Anchorage Turn
    • Hill Climb
    • Speed Retention
    • 360° Target Retention
    • Sensor Range
    • Advanced Zoom
    • Target Info Gathering
    • Target Decay
    • Improved Gyros
    • Seismic Sensor
    Branch3: Protection & Utility (4x4 Grid = 16 Skills)
    • Improved Armor
    • Improved Structures
    • Improved ECM (new)
    • ECM Range (new)
    • Radar Depriviation
    • Quick Ignition
    • Shock Absorbance
    • Heat Dissipation
    • Heat Threshold
    • Pinpoint
    • Capture Accelerator
    • Jump Jet Recharge (new)
    • Improved UAV (new)
    • UAV Range (new)
    • Improved Narc (new)
    • Narc Range (new)
    To unlock Skills you initially need a Small Amount of CBills (e.g. max 100.000) and XP Points (similar to old system prices e.g. max 1000)
    To lvl Up Skills you Just need XP Points (each lvl costs more)
    Now Hard Cap: 6 Skill Points to spend in each Branch = Total of 18 Skills.
    To Balance weaker Mechs you give a free +1 Lvl to specific Skills

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2017
    Riscy and Excalibaard like this.
  13. Excalibaard

    Excalibaard 101 010 Staff Member

    5,051
    1,107
    269
    This doesn't really incentivize a return for me either. I really hoped the skill-tree would be something else than a boring 'collect all numbers'. There are hardly any choices to be made and it removes the whole idea of quirks that was to balance mechs that have a disadvantageous shape which is the thing that makes the FPS so different from the tabletop: chances to hit certain components from positions where you prevent that happening to you.

    skirbs, I liked your idea :) Wrote a post to improve it even further!
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2017
  14. skribs

    skribs Min-Max Maniac

    1,685
    164
    48
    https://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/245736-latest-news-regarding-upcoming-skill-tree-pts-update/

    Updated Info. Here's the bullet points:
    • Initial Skill cost down to 60k C-Bills per point and 800 XP (from 100k and 1500 XP), or down to 5,460,000 C-Bills (from 9.1 million) and 72,800 XP (from 136,500). This is an increase from 0 C-Bills and around 56k XP to level currently, so any mastered Mech will need about 14000 more XP.
    • C-Bill and MC removed from respec costs. You can undo a point for free, and re-applying the point costs 400 XP.
    • Most weapon skills combined into one. Exceptions for things like UAC jam chance, laser duration, and gauss charge hold. But cooldown skills are universal, range skills universal, etc.
    • Survival skill tree nerfed. Sounds like they're making it bigger, so more points to invest for same benefit.
    • Lower-chassis and upper-chassis mobility trees combined because they were largely ignored.
    • Jump Jet tree way buffed.
    • Operations tree nerfed similar to survival.
    • Sensor Branch unchanged.
    • Auxiliary Branch getting buffed. They want you to use more consumables.
    • There was a bug affecting crits in the PTS so they fixed the bug, but otherwise aren't changing any of their plans until they can test without the bug.
    • Engine rating will not affect mobility. It will now only affect speed. I'm not sure if this is a nerf to high speed engines or a buff to low speed engines. But if the only reason you put that STD 350 into your Mech instead of a STD 300 is so you can get better torso twisting, you can fit more weapons on now.
    • PTS Update slated for the 24th
     
    Excalibaard likes this.
  15. skribs

    skribs Min-Max Maniac

    1,685
    164
    48
    Upon further reflection, I'm back to my original assessment: it will feel like climbing the mountain all over again. I'll drop from 80 mastered Mechs to 30 at launch.
     
  16. Aramuside

    Aramuside Star Lord

    304
    55
    133
    Not sure thats a good idea Skrib, remember you don't need all 90 points to equate with the current setup so its not as bad as it looks. I'm crawling towards 300 mechs and version 2 looks a lot better than 1 thank god. I'm doubly caught as I just ran enough modules to equip 4 mechs really as in a FW drop deck.
     
  17. skribs

    skribs Min-Max Maniac

    1,685
    164
    48
    In that case I would be able to get those 80 Mechs each to 31 points each. And then that ignores the other 40 or so that I have some XP on, but not mastered.
     
  18. skribs

    skribs Min-Max Maniac

    1,685
    164
    48
    Another thing I've seen mentioned once or twice is the increased time to change your build. Let's take an omnimech as an example:

    On a Stormcrow, I might want to run one of several builds, in which case I'd want different skills for one reason or another:
    • LRM boat (a 104 kph LRM mech with similar firepower and ammo to your average IS LRM assault is nothing to scoff at)
    • SRM splat build
    • SSRM light-hunter build
    • PPC/ERSL sniper build
    • One of several laser vomit builds
    • LB20 brawler
    • UAC20 brawler (separately listed because you want different weapon skills, i.e. LB spread vs. UAC jam chance)
    • Hybrid build that includes UAC10, SRM4s, and ERSLs
    Right now, I can swap between any of these and it will take me about a minute or two, because I have a database set up with all my builds listed. I can run one build after the next and barely slow down my group.

    However, you're doubling (if not more) the amount of clicks to go from one build to the next, and adding an XP cost on top of that (unless I just want to go with my lasers boosted on every build and ignore my LRMs, SRMs, SSRMs, PPCs, LBs, and UACs; or just ignore the weapon tree entirely). Even then, there are some sensory upgrades that make sense for a PPC build (like advanced zoom, sensor range, target info gathering) or a LRM/SSRM build (target retention) that may be of less value to another build.

    Overall, I think there's plenty of problems with the system outside the cost. The updated version is better, but I think it's a great proof of concept that needn't hit live.
     
  19. skribs

    skribs Min-Max Maniac

    1,685
    164
    48
  20. skribs

    skribs Min-Max Maniac

    1,685
    164
    48
    Apparently after some minor changes to PTS2 (called PTS2B or PTS2.5) they've decided they're happy with what they got and are going to make only minor changes from here until the 21st, when the system launches.

    Personally, I am very wary of this. They seem determined not to repeat the cancellation of energy draw and are pushing ahead no matter what.
     
top-fast
top-fast
top-fast
top-fast