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Invasion ARC-5W "BaDaBoom" (6xSRM6+A, LE300)

Discussion in 'ARC-5W' started by CarloArmato, Nov 14, 2017.

  1. CarloArmato

    CarloArmato Advanced Member

    SRM brawler for defensive games or CQC combat.

    Good speed, good DPS (no quirks on cooldown or heatgen, sigh), excelent tank thanks to the quirks.
    Base Armor (CT)+ 22
    Base Armor (LA)+ 10
    Base Armor (LL)+ 7
    Base Armor (LT)+ 10
    Base Armor (RA)+ 10
    Base Armor (RL)+ 7
    Base Armor (RT)+ 10

    You can swap the position of the SRMs (4 on the arms and 2 on the torsoes) if you prefer to "exploit" the arms for opportunity shots or fast movement over the more protected (and often delayed, unless you keep the hatches[?] open) side torsoes.

    I came up with this build after I've tried the meta 8xSRM4, but I found out it was spreading too much damage even when firing versus another heavy like the cataphract in testing grounds, plus it was generating a lot of heat. With this build you should be able to focus components better and even hit medium mechs reliably.

    I still need to try this build and skill it, but I will surely skill into operations, firepower (basically anything because it needs heatgen, range and cooldown), absolutely ammo skills for a total 600 SRM ammo instead of 500 (which is quite low, despite the 1000+ potential damage), survivability (especially armor), utilities (obviously) and finally something on sensors (especially radar deprivation and at least 1 seismic sensor) or maybe mobility and a speed tweak... ATM I would prefer sensors over mobility.
  2. Excalibaard

    Excalibaard ComStar - First Circuit Staff Member

    36 tubes vs 32, like it. Ghost heat kicks in after 4, so you can fire 4+2 rather than 3+3 instead. Pretty good. Artemis got nerfed pretty hard in spread reduction department, so not sure if it really does better over the SRM4's faster recycle time, but it looks very nice.

    You can run more ammo/more focused pattern by making it asymmetrical, meaning that you can potentially skip the missile rack skills, or if you play relatively careful you can last more rounds.

    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
  3. CarloArmato

    CarloArmato Advanced Member

    Exactly what I'm willing to do: 4 on the torso + 2 on the arms, so I can keep the arm-lock off and fire sooner the arms and later the torso when it will align to the target (provided I will keep the hatches open and I won't have any delay). That's why I was uncertain to do 4 on arms and 2 on torsos or stick with the posted build... Mainly because arms have less armor than torsoes and then they should not be used as shields (even if they are not very good at shielding anyway due to the geometry of the mech).

    I actually don't feel that huge nerf, at least on IS mechs which does have less spread compared to clanners. I still manage to get lucky shots or focus components pretty good in scout mode, even when firing versus fleeing lights. I can recall multiple instances when I managed to focus the whole salvo on a leg of medium clanners (mostly Hunchback IIC and Huntsman) and the Center Torso of a Kit fox / Adder at ~250 meters... IMHO it's not a huge nerf, in fact, I just checked out the 18th cotober patch note of october, which states:
    As far as I can tell, right now Artemis + skill nodes is still very good and even if it behave very similarly to the previous "artemis only", it feels still worth it. In fact, I often felt that -5% total spread reduction wasn't actually game-changing/breaking...

    This evening I should definitely checkout in the testing ground the actual difference between SRM6 / SRM6+A and SRM4.

    They don't fire as fast as SRM4, but they have better DPS: 12.9 damage in 4 seconds instead of 8.6 in 3 seconds.
    Which also means: 25.8 damage with 2 salvos in 8 seconds or still 25.8 damage with 3 salvos in 9 seconds... Which means it is very situational: over 8 seconds of sustained fire SRM6 performs better than SRM4, but if the target has more than 12.9 HPs and less than 17.2 HPs, then SRM4 performs better (provided we will hit only the intended component / CT).

    Plus, SRM6 has better Damage per Heat ratio: 12.9 / 4 = 3.225 dmg/h instead of 8.6 / 3 = 2.87~ dmg/h

    In the end, at least on paper SRM6 are hands down better than SRM4, provided they have same or better spread (they should with artemis compared to the non-artemis SRM4). Still, I need to try out this build which is kinda risky in solo / pug.
    Excalibaard likes this.
  4. Excalibaard

    Excalibaard ComStar - First Circuit Staff Member

    It is still significant in accuracy, yes, though it used to be so much better.

    Here's your comparison of current SRM6+A vs SRM4 (without spread nodes in the calculation, spread nodes favor artemis, as it stacks additively):

    SRM4s without artemis have a spread in a cone with base radius = 5.2, SRM6s with artemis radius = 5.7*0.75 = 4.275.

    4SRM4: pi*5.2^2 m² (84.95) for 16 missiles gives 5.31 m² per missile = 0.188 missiles/m² at max range/spread
    4SRM6+A: pi*4.275^2 m² (57.41) for 24 missiles gives 2.39 m² per missile = 0.418 missiles/m² at max range/spread

    That's a (5.31/2.39=) 2.22 factor increase in missile density per full volley, so near max range, SRM6+A will deal about double the damage to a single component compared to SRM4s. If we say that a certain component is roughly 10 m² in surface that can be hit:
    SRM6+A at max range hits 0.418*10 = 4.18 missiles of its volley on the targeted component. SRM4 will hit 1.88 missiles on the targeted component.

    Easiest way to calculate this therefore seems to be [Component Surface]/[Cone base surface]*missiles with the limit that [Component Surface]/[Cone base surface] can't be higher than 1, assuming perfect aim.

    However, if we take into account that the cone reduces in size as range decreases, taking the same 10m² component:
    4SRM4 hits all missiles on component from 92.6m
    4SRM6+A hits all missiles from 112.7m

    which is a very small difference if you aim for being in a face.


    If the base of both firing cones being smaller than the component they're supposed to hit, there is only the higher DPS of 4SRM4 (4*2.87=11.48) vs 3SRM6 (3*3.23=9.69) during the time that you don't overheat.
  5. CarloArmato

    CarloArmato Advanced Member

    To make a fair comparison, it is better to use the equivalent in tonnage: 3xSRM6+A (4*3=12) vs 6xSRM4 (6*2=12).

    ***Trigonometry intensifies***

    6SRM4: pi*5.2^2 m² (84.95) for 24 missiles gives 5.31 m² per missile = 4.5 missiles/m² at max range/spread
    3SRM6+A: pi*4.275^2 m² (57.41) for 18 missiles gives 2.39 m² per missile = 7.5 missiles/m² at max range/spread

    Which means 7.5 / 4.5 = 1.6667~ ratio

    I did some calculus and then discovered they are actually useless

    Game is patching right now, so I can't bring up to the table the proof, anyway...

    If I'm not wrong, in your calculus you used 5.2 and 4.275 meters as the radius of the "spread" circle where the missiles will land. If that is true, then does this radius applies at max range (270 meters) or even early? Because not only the missiles should be extremely thight (like LBX thight) at less than 100 meters, but if I'm not fooling myself I've noticed that missiles actually move into formation in the first 50-100 meters and then move pretty much straightforwad without changing position anymore.

    I'll definitely try out SRMs and artemis this evening and try to verify the numbers. I'll bring the results later
    Excalibaard likes this.
  6. Excalibaard

    Excalibaard ComStar - First Circuit Staff Member

    I think it works like spread = radius @ 270m. I also stop caring abour missile range for this reason. Same tonnage is fair in a different way. In real games you'll fire your phattest volley without ghost heat that you can. that's groups of 4. How many phat volleys you fire (DPS) depends on your full equipment (1.5 vs 2 full volleys in the case of 6SRM6+A vs 8SRM4 meta).

    it may very well not be a linear cone but more like a bulletshape, but this is merely an approximation. If it really goes into formation first, it's in favor of non-artemis missiles because there's an even smaller difference in distance needed to hit as many missiles as possible at a single area.
  7. CarloArmato

    CarloArmato Advanced Member

    I've tested the SRM4 vs SRM6+A right after the patch, but SRM6+A felt a little more "focused" compared to SRM4. I forgot to upload the vid.
    After watching again this clip, I've noticed that they do, in fact, have very similar spread: I had to use the same amount of SRMs to kill the cataphract from the same distance. I also had 1 spread node on the SRM4 version while I had maxed the spread nodes on the SRM6+A version.

    Further testing feels required to check out if it was just a "coincidence" or a random chance or they do actually perform very similar "spread-based"

    EDIT: I've also noticed that the SRMs will reach nearly maximum spread already at 100-150 meters.

    EDIT2: SRM6+A kills quicker because they fire more missile per salvo (+2) with a higher DPS and while having very similar accuracy. Ton wise, they weight the double and have better damage over heat generated... A very "close" fight.

    Last edited: Nov 17, 2017
    Excalibaard likes this.
  8. Falconium

    Falconium Administrator Staff Member


    Just a minor deviation from the version posted previously by @Excalibaard. This drops a DHS and 1 KPH to gain an extra ton of Ammo, while also maintaining maximum armor in the left shield-arm. With an ammo-reliant build like this, I personally think it's worth it; sustained DPS takes a minimal hit in favor of overall damage potential.

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