ButterBee "Poptart LRM Boat" (3xLRM10, 3xML, TAG, NARC, 4xJJ, BAP, XL280)

Discussion in 'Butterbee' started by skribs, Jan 6, 2017.

  1. skribs

    skribs Legendary Member

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    If Satan had a kid with my ex, this 'Mech would be the result. It combines the two worst evils of Mechwarrior Online: LRM boats and poptarts. I got the idea watching a video of a similar build on a TBT-7M. The idea is simple, you poptart and hit the enemy with NARC, and then fall back down and have 20 seconds or so of LRM spam on that target. However, as 50-ton LRM boats are wont to do, especially if you have a decent engine or other equipment, it didn't have a lot of ammo (in both matches it was previewed, he had to resort to the medium lasers at the end). It didn't have TAG (redundant with NARC, but it doesn't have ammo), so there was a bit I thought a 65-tonner could do better.

    Thus, I found the only IS Mech that can run multiple LRM10s, jump jets, 4+ energy slots, within the 60-70 range (that I could find, anyway): the Butterbee. This build is a little shy on armor, it has more ammo than a lot of LRM builds I see, but a lot less than I usually run. 18 shots with the NARC. I'm trying to figure out any tweaks I can use to make this better (and I'd love feedback). Here are some thoughts I have, in no particular order:

    • ARTEMIS isn't very useful, since the whole idea is to be out of LOS. The TAG does the same job and takes 1 ton instead of 2-3.
    • I don't really like the idea of going to 2 LRM10s, but it would give me 5 more tons to work with. It would make my spam more efficient and make my ammo last longer.
    • I'm not sure I want to go too much lighter on the engine, but I don't know if I can go up to the 300 XL without sacrificing much.
    • AMS would be nice if I could free up 1.5-2.5 tons for it.
    • 2xLRM15 instead of 3xLRM10 would give me a spare ton, but at the cost of DPS and spread. They would be a lot more heat efficient, especially in alpha (2 LRM15s is 10 heat, 3LRM10s is 14.02 heat, even in chain LRM10s are 4 heat each and LRM15s are 5 heat each, so I get 50% more missiles for 25% more heat)
    • I don't want to go to Small Lasers as that would be too short range, and not as powerful
    • I wish I could fit DHS onto the Mech, but I would want more LRM ammo first (although 1260 would be fine with a LRM20 build, I'd want 1440 or 1620 for the LRM30 options)
    • I would prefer MPLs to MLs, but we have more fish to fry first (Ammo > DHS > MPLs)


    This is what a 2xLRM10 build could look like. I added a little bit of ammo to each weapon (which would make them more than good for the fight), AMS, and a DHS.

    What are your thoughts? How would you build something like this? How would you tweak it? Is it as bad of an abomination as I think it is?
     
  2. Aylek

    Aylek Moderator Staff Member

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    I like the build on paper. And am a bit ashamed I didn't think along these lines when considering the BB in latest 50% sale... well, there are others to come for sure. Will give additional feedback when not on my phone.
     
  3. skribs

    skribs Legendary Member

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    Little bit off-topic question, but how have the sales been lately? Back when I started playing, there were like 7 hero mechs, so any hero mech you wanted was bound to come on sale within 3 months. Is it basically a lottery now, with so many hero mechs in-game?
     
  4. Aylek

    Aylek Moderator Staff Member

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    They simply put every hero mech already available in game on sale if I am not mistaken.

    On the build, did you try getting away with less than 4 JJs? Maybe 3 are sufficient for the kind of play style you're aiming for. You also might want to try to cut that half ton of NARC ammo to buff you armor a bit. Also, don't store your ammo in the legs, but in the arms. You don't want to loose those (happens fairly regularly if I remember right) and carry unused ammo in comparably low-armored legs. Finally, do you need ML for backup or could SPL be sufficient as well? Standard SL might work as well as those received a minor range buff recently. Such a swap would dircetly effect your cooling efficiency. Same goes for switching to 2x LRM15 + 1x LRM 5, the latter providing a constant stream of missiles and thus additional psychological pressure on your target. Example:



    Looking at this the ammo doesn't look right yet. You might want those additional 6 shots of NARC. I also dislike all the weight given away for the additional equipment like the JJs and the BAP. Unfortunately I can't help you with actual testing in game.
     
  5. skribs

    skribs Legendary Member

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    Like I said, I saw the video on youtube and I don't have a butterbee. I've never actually equipped a NARC on any of my Mechs, so I don't know how much ammo I need. In the video, he had 2 tons of ammo. I'm not sure how many jump jets would be needed, I just assumed max jump jets would be best for this playstyle (much like on a Light 'Mech the best idea is to always max engine speed). Shaving off a JJ and a half ton of NARC ammo would save me some space.

    The reason I like MLs is 2-fold: 1) There is no dead zone where my SPLs are barely effective and my LRMs are still ineffective, and 2) I like that 180-270m range where I can fire all my weapons with devastating effect. This is the same reason I don't want to go for small lasers, although I guess the effective range of 150m would be better in that case, and I'd get an extra 1.5 tons to work with.

    The reason I figured storing ammo in the legs was a good idea (and why I shave armor there) is as a poptart, my legs should largely be shielded by cover. This Mech isn't designed to be in LOS for very long, and the legs should be the least exposed. That's not to say I won't make the change, I'm just explaining why I picked them, and to hear your thoughts after that.

    2xLRM15+1xLRM5 is not something I want to go with. I don't particularly enjoy chain-firing LRMs, as I find AMS eats through them too much. Yesterday I had a Mech with an LRM20 that was getting maybe 2-3 hits per volley (and sometimes 0) because of enemy AMS. LRM5 would make ghost heat hit on one of the LRM15s if I alpha fire, unless that rule has changed since I've been gone. Plus, it's an extra ton compared to the 3x10 (even if it gets an extra 5 LRMs). It actually makes me think 2xLRM10 is too few, for the same reason.

    To clarify on your point regarding sales, whenever they do a sale anymore, they make all Mechs cheaper? Or is it just that specific sale? How often do they run these types of sales?
     
  6. skribs

    skribs Legendary Member

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    Got this on the chicken leg sale. The 3xLRM10 build was way too hot with no extra DHS (I couldn't sustain fire with the LRMs), so I quickly scrapped that. I dropped to 2xLRM15, and it was decent, but lacked the ammo to get me around town in a testing ground. The alternate build I provided seems to be the sweet spot there. I'll have to take it into an actual match and see how I will do (but that will have to wait until I can drop tomorrow).

    I am considering this, or something like it, to make it even more evil, but I'd have to run a 5th weapon group for it:

     
  7. Blagg Zear

    Blagg Zear Moderator Staff Member

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    "If Satan had a kid with my ex [MACHINA], this 'Mech would be the result" :-D

    By the Build Title i expected some true Jump-Sniper with PPCs and additional LRM Launchers.. but not a Jump-Narcing Mech, even though i like the general idea of having a Narc Pod in a LRM Missile Boat. The biggest problem with Narc is that you have to get really close to the target to successfuly hit someone, that not stands still to let you hit. Not a good idea for a fragile Missile Boat in my opinion. It's rather a nice gadget in a very fast Light Mech to support the Missile Boats that are hiding really far behind the frontline. It's always better to put another LRM Launcher in your mech instead.

    how about preserving the true meaning of a "Poptard LRM Boat" with something like this:


    If you want your original Build cooler:
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2017
  8. skribs

    skribs Legendary Member

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    The Narc is the poptart weapon. It has a decent range on it, and unlike other poptart weapons, hitting the right component isn't important - just hit the 'Mech. It's effective over 500m, which is where LRMs are most effective (300-500m). Beyond that and they can get behind cover too easily.

    Once you're back down behind cover, you're not as vulnerable.
     

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