With a recent thread concerning missile boating, Polar Highlands (PH) was brought to the table again. This map is the basis of a lot of discussion and name calling on plenty the fora. Personally, I love the map and rarely have the missile rain issues others talk about. On the contrary most of my drops on the said map are very fluid/mobile fights where both snipers, flankers an jumpjetting harassers are having a blast and missile boats tend to die fast. Seen the popularity of the map in opinion threads, I would like to see how the mechspecs crowd sees the map. Kindly drop a short paragraph on why you like or dislike PH, but lets not start a new discussion. Keep it informative Cheers, Zot
I've had much more problems with LRMs than snipers on Highlands. It's not THAT hard to break contact if you get targeted but if you get NARC'd, you're done. The worst battles are when your team gets spooked by LRMs and just hides. And despite its size and lack of large cover, it's still better for short ranged builds than Alpine Peaks. I think a lot of people hate it because scouting and maneuver are more important than the deathball.
The Map looks visuelly great, but it's Design is not that great imo. Little options to find cover (pretty flat) and it's a cold map - best for Energy Snipers and Lurmageddon. And the worst is - whenever this map comes into the vote selection most times it's picked because it's an extremely easy map - good for hot builds, nonJJ-Mechs friendly, no Obstacles for LRMs, no difficult routes to take. So it could become extremely boring when it's picked over and over again by the majority. It's good for grinding C-Bills - just take out your Long Range Builds, but it's not great fun as the other more challenging Maps, where you can play Ninja by using the environment and surprise Snipers/Missile Boats into CQC.
Aesthetically I think the map is right on, and believable from the standpoint of the description supplied by PGI. It is what is described, an outpost on a cold planet located on a relatively flat highland, with trenches built up by plowed snow from years of snowstorms in order to travel from one part of the outpost to another. The lack of structures, and the height of structures is also right on in my opinion. The dilemma from my perspective is the same as the problem I have with most maps I dislike. If you have no pre-notion of the map you are dropping on then you have to do one of two things... either bring an all around build, or go with a purpose driven (Min/Maxed) build and hope for the best. If you were given a chance to choose your mech once the map was chosen, I might have a different opinion..... Why do we have that ready key anyway. It's stupid to sit around waiting to drop on a map twiddling your thumbs!!! let us select a drop ready mech from our inventory for heavens sake, then press ready in the queue! Sorry dropped into a rant there.... I know there are issues with this too. I agree with @Shock on this... Scouting and maneuvering are much more important in this case, and with the correct team in place this would be an enjoyable map, but pugging... how many times do you drop PUG as a well rounded team, with scouts that want to scout and tag, and narc, and ECM, Skirmishers that do their job, and yes... archers, snipers, poppers and droppers all doing their job?... I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but it is rare. The reason though, that I gave a negative has been echoed by @Cpt Chattahah more than once. He said it best on the Lurm thread I started... I agree hole heartedly, and it may even be the reason behind the map... to draw in, and make the game more accessible to, new players that are uncomfortable with up close and personal combat... I don't have to like it though, and I just don't Damn sorry Zot, I got a bit long winded there.
Mostly feeling neutral. Good: -A different playstyle. -It is pretty. -Allows for multiple attack routes. Bad. -Too Missile Spammy. -Cover too shallow in some areas (need at least Hoth trenches depth to dodge missiles). -Area too big for this type of map action. -Conquest is like a racetrack more than a fight. Basically I would love a head on type of map that is somewhat flat and featureless, with small obstacles and walls as covers, we do need some flatter maps for snipery action. But the cover is really too sparse and the area too big. Simply put, it makes for missile spamming more than long range snipery action we can hope for. That said, even with the missile spamming, the problem is much smaller than some might make it out to be. While I won't call the map great, it does add a map of different playstyle. I rather have more maps of different playstyle to choose from than 9000 maps that are similar.
Overall I love the map. It is different than all the other maps and can promote some very high-level team play for larger groups. Solo-queue can be frustrating, but It sill adds a lot of diversity and fun to the line-up. There is no other map that promotes ranged fighting to the level of Polar. There is lots of cover to move and advance an entire team. It's also a great map for JJ scouting. LRMs aren't useless compared to most other maps. and ERLL can be used to their full potential. You can also brawl, but you have to be patient or route accordingly. The map plays different, so people don't like it because they can't employ the same tactics they rely on for every other map in the game. There is no defining feature to center the battle on, so that means every game could be different, but still progress similar because all of the terrain is similar hills and rocks. I disagree that it is badly designed. Looks wonderful and visuals are clear with no fog/haze Diversity isn't bad. And blaming "poor design" because you don't agree with how the matches play-out is a cop out. I will call the map great. It's one of my favorites and I'm always happy when it shows up, even in a brawler. PGI shouldn't be designing maps to reinforce PUG mentality. This map can be played very smart. It's not the map designs fault that most teams just rinse/repeat the same thing regardless of what map they are on, what mechs are on their team, etc. 8/10 for me. Not perfect, but a great map.
indeed a very controversial map.. many lovers, many haters... and many mixed feelings. I haven't played much the last weeks, but the few matches i had - i had crappy performance on Short Range Builds and also slow Assault Mechs (got sniped and lurmed down from hyper range before getting chance to return fire - those Zoom Module Bastards!), on the other hand i had superior experiences with Long Range Builds. What i like on this map is: SCOUTING & TEAMPLAY IS KEY! because otherwise both teams can run around for ages before clashing into each other and if you don't stick together you simply get lost on this huge map. It's a Love/Hate Relationship i have atm until i (we all) find out what can counter all the Lurmageddon Parties (finding the tactical spots/covers/routes, taking out the ECM Mechs etc.) i voted for "neutral"
8/10 sounds about right. It will take on average 3.5 minutes to find the enemy and engage. And it's not forgiving on a scout lance targeting another scout lance some of the other "open" maps. Most of the time you will move and die as a deathball. The only part i really do not like about the map is the absolute need for long range weaponry (unless you're a super fast light). Overall: The map does provide good cover There are multiple locations where you can form a line and unload as one. (requires long range weapons for the most part) There are multiple battle field locations. (i don't think i've ever had a battle in the same spot, which is saying something)
I'll add in that since I've started getting back into the game, I sparsely play and since the "Tier" system has been in place, I have not played a ton. Therefore, I am still Tier 3 about to break into Tier 2. This is likely the reason that I am seeing so much amateurish play of LRM spam and poor coordination. The map itself is indeed beautiful. I love the look of the map. I just wish I was set more to the side in the mountains of Alpine Peaks that is was originally redesigned from. The flat playing field and very shallow trenches make for a very unpleasant PUG experience. If I was still in active comp groups, I'm sure even a 4-man would shift my viewpoint, but as it stands. I'm no fan.
Poor map - I'm surprised anyone finds scouting important on this map as the visibility is so uninterrupted. Its literally a white field where everything else at range is a black stick man.... when someone shows themselves to spot you its not very hard to spot them unless they're very small .... Just lost a match 12-1 to a team heavy with lrm assaults and 1 locust scout. They just spotted and lrm'd everyone one by one. If we'd had more ECM then maybe better but this was solo queue. Locust played sensibly and almost never fired just peeped at our backs locking us one by one.
You gave the best example yourself - have multiple LRM Mechs, and some few Scouts to get the Locks first (UAV, Narc, etc.) for your team. If LRMs weren't allowed and it would be all direct line shooting, i would say - great to learn Sniping!
Problem is solo queue is full of LR atm so if you drop in short on this map you're in real trouble. In fairness my view is coloured by the fact I am relatively new and have no ECM carrying mechs or lance mates to cover me. I'm amazed by how few people use comms in this game.
I say this, this map has me revisiting the idea of sniping. Time to dust off one of my ecm capable mechs and get back into it. Maybe Super Chicken
I voted neutral. The map is gorgeous, but there are NO safe zones if you are Narced or spotted. The inability to make a map-based drop selection is just unacceptable for having a map in rotation that is this way. Strictly speaking, the balance problem is not the map itself but that there is no meaningful counter-play with map choice / mech choice. This problem has always existed with MWO's queue, and while the new "vote for 1 of 4 maps, 1 of 2 modes" is a meaningful improvement, it also highlights the glaring stupidity of random map choice after mech choice even more. In 'verse, the only company (mercenary or otherwise) that operates that way are ones that don't exist for very long. We're not roleplaying as individual pilots with one AND ONLY ONE mech that we call our own and lovingly care for. Well, I mean, if you are, fine, whatever, but you know what I mean. This could technically be patched by creating just a few artificial bridges or ware-house style bays within the trenches themselves, and building add-ons in a few more places that brunt the blow of LRM spam. The map would still be wide open and well designed, just more forgiving. But why should this be the case? I maintain the map is fine, the problem is the queue. The interactions between the current Tier system, standard PuGs, and mech-before-map functionality. Matching is currently based on tonnage? We're not doing weirdness with BVs yet? AWESOME. Relatively easy fix: contingent mech selection. Pick a tonnage, that becomes your drop tonnage. Only have one mech of that tonnage, or are willing to take the risk of a bad drop? Auto-fill, or fill all selections, or whatever. We already have the ability to name each individual mech and assign it modules, give us whatever checkboxes we need for "I'm dropping at X tonnage, drop with this mech on this map." Don't even try telling me this is hard to code, that's college teaching course Excel bull-shite and the GUI design doesn't need anything that isn't already an asset in the game engine. One button/click auto-fill for ease of use, keep a savable preference that can be overwritten on the fly then reset to your save after drop, whatever. Plenty of easy, easy QoL features are viable. I realize it's still man-hours, but the team isn't THAT small, and this kind of system should have been a priority years ago.
Many good opinions here. I like/hate this map depending on how my team wants to play, and the diversity of our mech's loadout vs. the enemies'. I guess that could be said for many maps, but this one stands out a bit more to me. All in all, I think it is a very good thing that PGI is trying out new types of maps, as someone said earlier all the other maps DO have tall building or tall obstacles to hide behind, and they probably just wanted to experiment with a different type of map that didn't have something that every other map did have. Trying new things out does not always result in positive opinions, but it is crucial to the development process, as you don't know how something will turn out/ be received until you try and see what happens. Seeing what works and what doesn't, and listening to peoples feedback, is how things should be done. And in real life there were plenty of flat ground battlefields, and PGI probably wanted to see how MWO would deal with trench warfare. WW1 trenches comes to mind, which involved the use of coordinates to make use of artillery and mortars, and death rushes over flat ground to overrun the enemy's trench. Pretty much all of that translates into MWO in the form of scouting to make use of LRM's, and brawling. Just be glad they left out the mustard gas, barbed wire, and trench foot. Also maybe they wanted to influence people to use NARC more and make it more popular. On most maps, even if you get Narced, you can still just run behind cover, granted you're fast enough and you are by adequate cover, that is. On Polar, NARC is a VERY powerful tool, and actually makes me want to use it, and not feel like I'm just wasting tonnage bringing one into battle. Not saying NARC is bad or anything, and I know it is situational, but usually I just kinda feel like the bottom line effectiveness and results of my use of it isn't worth my effort of equipping it and going out of my way to NARC somebody, and sometimes you just don't have many LRM's on your team if at all, which i know usually isn't the case these days. Maybe this map will make players more familiar with it, thus seeing it put to practical effective use on other maps as well.
And this is why I spend so much time on MechSpecs and so little on the MWO fora,... So many great points raised in a sensible way! Thanks all! ps. Seriously considering posting a link to this thread to Russ
NARC is less of the problem than you think. I strongly suggest people to carry Sense Derp nowadays, as a big "fuck you" to the whole tagging thing. One thing is that this map is unsuitabe for conquest. It is basically a racetrack. I suggest maybe making the whole map a bit deeper in terms to trenches and maybe shrink the map size 10%-15%
Voted "I love it". not my favourite map, but definitely one of my favs. I just don't like the conquest points. On the opposite, the visibility is very interrupted. There are a lot of trenches allowing to break line of sight and to move sneakily. When on those trenches you can pop out from almost anywhere so there is no obvious choke points where to wait for the enemy.
An elegant solution I think. By the way, I had a good bit of fun running PUG "Super Chicken" on this map last night. One drop there were actually 4 of us... Don't know why I stopped running it.
