My First Mech - My First Kit Fox

Discussion in 'Kit Fox' started by rifter, Feb 7, 2015.

  1. rifter

    rifter New Member

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    As the title indicates I am a complete newb. I'm so green it's embarrassing and just starting to learn how to drive and stuff here. So you might imagine how overwhelmed I might be in trying to figure out what my first mech should be and how to build it. I'm starting to see what I might want, so that is a good start.

    I haven't played a real Battletech game since the original Mechwarrior I think. But when I did I did like the light mechs, and in that game taking a Locust to people's legs was a pretty viable strategy. It's obviously a bit harder here, but based on what I have done in playing, even though I am new and all, I think a light mech is for me if nothing else but for the ability to run when I get into trouble. Ditto for Jump Jets.

    I read a bunch of stuff about the Kit Fox and I thought it would be a fun mech to do. I also thought it would be a good idea to have ECM and be a sniper since that would remind me to duck and cover more and focus my damage on that first shot/volley/alpha strike before running. I haven't learned how to use lasers lasers effectively and I kind of like the ballistics, so I was thinking a build around the UAC. LRMs seemed a logical choice as well for sniping. They both seem to produce less heat and allow a quicker bang.

    This is what I have so far for my build

    Two things I am not figuring out for sure:
    1) how to factor heat dissipation into builds. Like figuring out the heat and ghost heat generated by weapons and how much is dissipated by heat sinks, etc.
    2) quirks in the case of a mech like the Kit Fox where you can mix and match pieces and obtain therefore some of the quirks/advantages (yaw speed/angle, etc). That's one of the things this guy (beware his salty language!) was trying to work on - putting in different arm/torso/leg pieces to get the benefits. I have seen places that tell the quirks of various mechs, but not what parts give what benefits other than hardpoints. I'd like, obviously, to do what I can there. I think that I could swap the torso and legs on this build but I don't know to what. He also uses two jump jets instead of four, and taking the non-jumpjet legs gave me extra tonnage for things like ECM, AMS, and ammo.

    I am sure there will be plenty of people who will disagree with the very premise of this mech, and I am certain there are tweaks that need to be done to make it more effective even if I go this route. Any advice is appreciated but I would like to try and keep to my goals here if I can.

    Being new and not very good yet, I do have enough money to do this build according to smurfy's site, but it will be awhile before I can build anything else. I'm somewhat concerned about repair costs, since I have read elsewhere you should budget 150% of the cost of a mech so you have that 50% for repairs. Since I am not making a lot in matches now that I am done with the newbie rewards, I don't want to dig myself too deep in a hole. I have been practicing with the training mechs, obviously, so that is an option, but the fact remains that a properly built mech will probably lead to more success and therefore greater gains.

    Thank you for your time and patience. I know this post is pretty long but skimming you should get the gist. It's also my first post here.
     
  2. enileph

    enileph Space Pimp

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    Welcome to Mechspecs!
    On your build.
    1) Don't put AC5 and LRM15 on a kitfox, it is not worth the performance.
    3) Your ammo count is pitiful. You need at least 2 tons of ammo per ballistic weapon usually (except MG), and you are nowhere near that.
    4) Same goes for LRM ammo. Around 1 ton per "5 counts" of LRM is suggested.
    5) Not enough ammo for AMS. 0.5 to 1 ton of AMS ammo per AMS suggested.

    All in all it is not a functional build.

    If you want UAC5. Not what I would play but this is more reasonable.

    or this, if that arm comes out:



    For LRM, Well, kitfox sucks as LRM, but LRM10 is at least more concentrated in missile spread without +A. This one have TAG, and a cERLL for defense, as well as a pair of cMG.


    Kit Fox. Simply put, remember these things for kit fox.
    1) you need that "C Right Arm":
    That arm has ECM, and is a great thing. If you are not having a config C, you can still use that omnipod. You should ALWAYS ALWAYS get ECM if you use that arm.

    2) JJ.
    You should always have at least one JJ with kit fox if you can. The quickest way is to install "S Side Torso"
    Both LT and RT omnipod will give you JJ, you can ge both if you want. On the side note, they also give you ballistic slot, which is usually for cMG.
    You have JJ on Config S legs also, but try to use other legs, S legs give penalty.

    3) Kitfox is better at energy, and SRM (or streaks). Big Ballistic is a bit too much for kitfox, and there are way better mechs for LRM.

    You don't need much training run, go for PUGs! You would most likely die easily, but you get cbills and exp with each match, which is great for getting more stuff, like buying more weapons, upbgrades, etc. This is especially important since if you like IS mechs you need to spend 1.5 mill on most mech to upgrade to DHS (Single heatsink is crap and only retarded pieces of shit use them for 99.99% of builds) EXP is great for leveling the skill of the mech, giving quite reasonable bonus.

    4) It is almost a must to put cAP/BAP on any LRM mech, they greatly enhance performance. Unless you have ECM.

    Sorry if my post sound a bit harsh. Trust me, my first build is waaay worse than yours.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2015
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  3. epikt

    epikt Benefactor

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    Always nice to see new players, welcome.

    It must be a very old post, there are no rearm and repair cost since the closed beta (and hopefully, for ever).

    About your build, enileph is right, you don't have enough ammo. You'll have to choose between AC and LRMs, you can't have both.
    I'm personally quite fond of the AC5 (ultra or LB, whatever you fancy), the weapon is very well placed (high on the torso) and it allows you to stay at mid-range.
     
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  4. Durandal

    Durandal Legendary Member

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    Some rules of thumb I would use with your builds:

    1) The longer range the weapon is, the more ammunition you should use. The theory works like this: an LBX20/AC20 has an extremely limited range...moreso if it's LBX, since the bullets spread out a lot. You also get fewer shots per ton, so pilots will generally reserve that weapon for close encounters, and not fire wildly. Weapons like AC2/LBX2/LRM, however, have very long range, flying across the map. You find a lot of people who are more carefree in firing those weapons, since they get more ammo per ton, and can generally afford to let them fly a little bit more. With LRMs specifically, you have a high chance that they will miss: your target lock could be broken, terrain could catch the missiles, AMS, and even teammates could get in the way of the shot. More missiles means more volleys.

    2) Focus on one aspect of your game. Look at Enileph's signature: balanced builds are for doinks! This means that you should build your mechs with a specific purpose in mind. Building a brawler? Short range lasers and SRMs, maybe some LBX! Building a sniper? Long range lasers, ACs, even Gauss if the mech can support the tonnage. Building a missile platform? LRMs and some backup weapons and equipment. The best and strongest builds in the game are those that focus on a specific role, and equip to perform that role as best they can. The "meta" changes every now and then...what works well now would have been obliterated a year ago. A year from now, who knows what will have changed?

    3) Every build in this game has a weakness. Remember above, when I said to focus on a play style for a build? Well, that can bite you in the ass! I posted a video today of a game in my Timber Wolf where I tore up the enemy team, and I was still out for more blood. But on the wrong map, that same mech would be vulnerable, I would have to completely change how I moved to get any success with it. There's always a counter...a sniper has advantages on long range maps over a brawler, who needs to sometimes cross 600-800 meter areas to get in range of said sniper. But get that sniper to turn a blind corner into that same mech, and it's over in half a second. An LRM boat can rain down hell on some maps, but get in close to them, and suddenly they are mewling in fear. There is no build in this game that is 100% perfect every time. Some aspect of the mech will always affect you: enemy mech builds, map size, map layout, map heat, etc. Accept this, and learn which maps do and do not suit your mech, so you can adapt your playstyle to fit your mech to the map.

    4) Don't judge a build by its first rounds. When I mentioned that Timber Wolf, I despised that build at first. All short range, very limited, absolutely no way to counter enemies sitting back sniping unless I could sneak up to them somehow. I thought it was one of the worst builds I had piloted. Then I put a dozen or so rounds in with it, and suddenly started adjusting to its limitations; I paid more attention to where the enemy was, so I knew where I could go to sneak up into close range. 200 damage games turned into 300 damage, then 500, then 800, and more. The thing about this game is that every time we get a new mech, or try a new build, it's like putting on a new pair of shoes. You have to break it in, and get into a groove with it. Only then can you begin to excel.

    5) Mechspecs is occasionally brutal, but never mean spirited. We will critique your builds, even suggest new ones if we can. However, I can tell you from experience that posting here often (and reading other builds) will help you learn what does and does not work on a mech. More importantly, you will learn why things do and do not work on a mech. And before long, you can start making suggestions to other players and helping them learn too. So stick around, we're happy to help ;)
     
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  5. rifter

    rifter New Member

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    Hooray for swift replies! I had a sneaking suspicion that I didn't have enough ammo, which yeah probably means let's sacrifice LRM.
    Harsh is good, because death spirals are way worse. Letting down the team by running something that can't perform is probably even worse. I was thinking it would be obvious from my build I didn't quite know what I was doing.
    I looked into what BAP/CAP were and found this helpful post http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/144474-the-lrm-commandments/

    Looking at that I can see how it makes more sense to go with something different, maybe, if I wanted the LRMs to be effective. The build you suggest does make some sense though, as does your suggestion to do something other than LRM on a small mech. Really I was kind of just seeing what I could cram in there.

    I need to figure out how you guys embedded the smurfy link because that makes it easier for people to see my build than trying to follow links.

    Thank heavens for no repair costs. Those tend to make it hard to progress in some games when they are too aggressive.

    Taking what you said as advice I did some tweaking. I upped the armor a bit, ditched the missiles, upped the ammo, and swapped in some energy weapons. I was initially going to go with two pulse lasers since I prefer the burst damage, but the range was going to be too low on the smaller one. So I bit the bullet on the medium laser.

    I thought about SRM, but I was wondering whether you need the same ammo there. Sounds like you might.

    This is what I have now...

    While I am at it I did have one somewhat related newb question. I can't figure out any way to buy weapons or equipment for mechs before I buy a mech. I am not sure if I get to buy the equipment at the same time as the mech or after. What I am concerned about is if the stuff I want to put on there is not available because I need to unlock it or something. If I can buy it simultaneously I guess that is fine, but then I would wonder about buying something to swap out or whatever. I also am curious about torso/leg/arm parts since they are swappable on Kit Fox. If I bought a mech that can swap, can I buy a different part later and swap out, keeping or selling the old one? Or do I have to build a new mech?
     
  6. Durandal

    Durandal Legendary Member

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    Also, to post a smurphy link, copy this line of text in the save popup...:

    [​IMG]

    And when you paste it here, change the beginning to "https" and just post the link. Then it will do a popup like this:



    Now, some thoughts: Your legs are WAY too weak here, as well as unbalanced. 15 armor on the right, 20 on the left, and both legs will be targets for any passing mech. With 20 front armor, your CT is also very vulnerable. I would just drop the pulse laser to a regular, and max out the armor:



    This loses you one firepower, but you get better heat management and range on the 2nd laser, and much better survivability.
     
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  7. rifter

    rifter New Member

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    While we're messing around, I thought it might be funny, for giggles, to see what happens if you try and go PPC. So I started by telling smurfy max armor, then managed TWO PPCs!
    First and most obvious problem is that it doesn't have ECM or AMS which was kind of the point anyway. Second problem is heat. I shaved some armor and came up with this.
    It would also be a one hit wonder in that it would, by my rudimentary calculations, close to max heat in one shot and would have a long time before it could fire anything again. Still no AMS, too. But it does have heat sinks in the legs, which are supposed to cool faster if you walk in the water.

    Not to derail from the original poppin' fresh ballistic sniper, though. Just a funny thought.

    Incidentally this was kind of one of the reasons I was thinking Kit Fox for this. Well ok one of the top three - that you can cram so much into a little mech like this. The other two, obviously, were the jump jets and ECM.
     
  8. The Verge

    The Verge Administrator Staff Member

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    Topic moved to the Kit Fox section.
     
  9. enileph

    enileph Space Pimp

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    NOW you are thinking!
    The 2x cERPPC build have a Cooling Efficiency at 28%... which means it runs really hot, being extremely hard to use.
    But a single cERPPC and ECM might be an idea? It has JJ.
    If you max JJ it might be a poptart.

    With that idea, plus a bit of self defence weapons. It might be like this:
    The cERML and cERPPC are unlikely to be working together. A small poptart.


    BTW, AC5 series is for mid range. If you like sniper action, it is better off with PPC and gauss.
    That said, kitfox does not work well with Gauss. The lightest Clan mech with JJ and functional with Gauss (though not ideal) would be a medium, like a Nova.

     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2015
  10. rifter

    rifter New Member

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    You know I totally missed that the legs were lopsided there. It's something I seem to keep accidentally doing when messing with the armor.
    The build you suggest makes a lot more sense in many ways. I mean to be fair I had meant most of the damage to come from the UAC/5 anyway.
     
  11. rifter

    rifter New Member

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    I see, but I thought the Gauss had a long charging mechanic. That's a reason I wasn't thinking of it for poptarting. It also was described as being a weird one where if you don't hold it long enough, it doesn't fire, and if you hold it too long, it also does not fire. That seems tricksy. Maybe it doesn't work that way anymore.

    That Nova you specced is actually tempting .. I'm about 1mil c-bills away from being able to afford that now, but that's if I delay buying my first mech until then.
     
  12. enileph

    enileph Space Pimp

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    Nova is not too good a mech though, but it is all in the playstyle. I say stormcrow. That bugger can do anything except for JJ and ECM.
     
  13. The Verge

    The Verge Administrator Staff Member

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    nova is better than kitfox for that anyway...
     
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  14. Durandal

    Durandal Legendary Member

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    There might be some differing of opinion, but I would say that the Stormcrow, Timber Wolf, Hellbringer, Dire Wolf, and Warhawk are all good clan mechs. The Nova, Summoner, Kit Fox, Adder, and Gargoyle are simply "ok", while the Mist Lynx and Ice Ferret are among the worst clan mechs. This is not to say that people can't get good results with any of the "non-good" clan mechs (I have had great matches with Mist Lynx, knowing how bad it is), but they are going to be traditionally less capable than the mechs in the good list.

    That said, get your full cadet bonus saved up, and do not buy a single mech until after that. We can suggest some good mechs and builds for you when the time comes...but I can tell you that you would likely regret spending all your CB on Novas, especially once you see how superior the SCR and TBR are in the long run. ;)

    Also, protip, save up your global experience (ie, do not spend it on your mechs). You will want that to unlock modules first, which can take a while at the beginning.
     
  15. rifter

    rifter New Member

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    All good advice. But I do have my whole cadet bonus plus what I have earned so far and I don't have nearly enough for the most bare bones Timberwolf or Stormcrow. About 9.3 mil. That's basically enough it seems for a kind of pimped out light like the above.

    Gauss won't fit on the Kit Fox at all as far as I could see. The only problem with the Nova is no ECM option.

    I did finally do a trial with the gauss (trial Atlas has one) and that could be doable for some kind of mech as a sniper weapon. It is tricky but it is quicker than I was afraid it would be and you could get used to it. Looking at the damage from these weapons I realized that the critical problem here is a sniper has to be able to deliver as much damage in one go at long range as he can. Even the UAC/10 pales in comparison to the Gauss Rifle or PPC. I'd also missed the Targeting Computer, which even though I can't find any specs on its bonuses is probably important.

    I think I am going to keep the ideas you have all proposed simmering. But it seems that I am gonna go with this build for the first. I appreciated all the help.

     
  16. at0m

    at0m New Member

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    One of my favorite builds is that ECM arm with two PPCs. Runs super hot though, so I eventually ended up changing it to a single PPC and 2xASRM6, feels good to slap lights when they get too close. Always always always run ECM if you can.
     
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