New Skill Tree - Thoughts

Discussion in 'General MWO Discussion' started by Joe Bopper, Apr 28, 2017.

  1. Joe Bopper

    Joe Bopper Well-Known Member

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    So the new skill tree is here. I'll be posting what I think about it, and I'd appreciate it if others did so as well.
    https://mwomercs.com/news/2017/05/1821-patch-notes-14115-16may2017

    - Why do they call it skills?
    Are we leveling up in an RPG? Why can't it be called mods, modifications, tweaks, new parts, upgrades? It would make more sense this way because a mech can only have so many "modifications" or "auxilliary part upgrades" before it needs a mechanic / engineer to work on it (A.K.A. respec it) in the garage / mechlab. Check out my forum page on mwomercs regarding this...
    https://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/249797-why-call-it-skills/page__fromsearch__1

    - I'm not liking what they did to mobility.
    It was a good idea but they seem to have upped accel and deccel to high values across the board.
    urbies with MASC - watch the video in the link below
    http://static.mwomercs.com/downloads/UrbanMech Mobility Comparison.webm
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2017
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  2. Excalibaard

    Excalibaard 01001101 01001111 01000100 Staff Member

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    Not liking it.

    The 'web' idea has to go. If they want to hide skills behind other skills, that's fine, but now everything is all over the place in such tiny increments that there is no sense of direction OR choice. A linear skill tree with increasing skill point costs, or commitment requirements before unlocking a new level would achieve the same design philosophy.

    The 'respec cost' is an XP-sink, but an unnecessary one and it hinders tinkering. I'd rather pay more to unlock a node permanently without respec costs.

    Engine decoupling should be studied seperately. I like the idea of reducing dependency on a large engine, which is going to nerf many of the top-tier mechs and help things like the stalker. But for some reason PGI goes from thinking a million times too complex for the skill system to a fucking black or white, yes or no engine link to torso twisting. Without any compensation for mechs that need their mobility quirks, even supported by lore. Awesomes shouldn't be as mobile as Victors.

    The more I start getting invested in the game again the more I remember why I took such a long break from playing. The game can be so much more than PGI lets it be with their bollocks design decisions, and that just ruins the fun that can be had.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2017
  3. Excalibaard

    Excalibaard 01001101 01001111 01000100 Staff Member

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    Yep, it was just very late.
     
  4. Joe Bopper

    Joe Bopper Well-Known Member

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    Yep, there's a lot of stuff to read and the game's layout is more confusing now.. I have to go read the patch notes again.
     
  5. Excalibaard

    Excalibaard 01001101 01001111 01000100 Staff Member

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    I'm spending -no joke- more than half an hour per mech to 'optimise' these skill trees. Mostly avoiding the firepower tree if my build uses sustained damage, or missiles + ballistics.

    Everytime contemplating whether I really want to waste skill points on speed retention and gyros to improve heat containment (yeah that's really logical).

    and then I also found out that you can only go down links, not up towards a connected node.

    It gets better and better.

    just 80 more mechs to go....



    /saltierthanthedeadsea
     
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  6. Thibideau Osis

    Thibideau Osis Space Pimp

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    Hail,

    The new skill tree design and implementation is atrocious, I patched then opened game, looked at new skill shit, laughed and closed game.

    Seyla,
     
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  7. Joe Bopper

    Joe Bopper Well-Known Member

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    Am I the only one who actually likes it a lot?
     
  8. Excalibaard

    Excalibaard 01001101 01001111 01000100 Staff Member

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    I've been playing with it all night so far. In terms of 'liking it', a C+.

    I like the new things it brings, and it gives more build flexibility than the old system.

    There are 3 major problems:
    1. It could've been done in a way simpler method, achieving the same things without maze-like patterns. Knowing this makes it all the more frustrating it's implemented in this way.
    2. Casual players already struggle with putting together decent builds in the mechlab. Especially with Civil War tech on the horizon, is this extra build flexibility really needed?
    3. While mech loadouts can be read from targeting info, skills can't. With all the different builds going around and incremental differences between them, you never know the safe engagement range. Is the SRM brawler limited to 270m or to 300m, because he took all kinds of range quirks? I found this very frustrating. Every mech has just slightly different ranges and behaviour for the same weapons, rather than noticeable quirks, making it hard to play with AND against.
     
  9. Joe Bopper

    Joe Bopper Well-Known Member

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    I think it's fun so far :D
     
  10. Jaxx the Elder

    Jaxx the Elder Space Pimp

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    At least PGI are consistent :)
     
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  11. PyckenZot

    PyckenZot Benefactor

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    B- in my opinion.

    -I like the huge amount of minute control the skilltree gives

    -I don't mind the maze structure, I don't mind having to pay useless nodes to get those last min/max points in and I only dislike the amount of clicking slightly (bear in mind the amount of mechs I have and get a feeling for my patience! )

    -Now on the other hand I severely dislike
    1. Being unable to test the maze choices prior to accepting
      I have had to return and respec a number of nodes on each try so far (too cool, too hot, etc, etc)
    2. The engine desync
    3. The XP sync
    -I hate not having a "profile" option. Just imagine, you make 1 LRM boat and then save the profile,... easy right? :)
     
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  12. Gasboy

    Gasboy Advanced Member

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    The mechs that were "so good" and never had significant (if any) quirks are now going to be superb since they can only go up.

    Mechs that depended heavily on their quirks will suffer, since the quirks remaining do not equal the quirks taken away, so for the most part these mechs will struggle just to break even.
     
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  13. Excalibaard

    Excalibaard 01001101 01001111 01000100 Staff Member

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    What I know so far about skills:

    According to Kanajashi math, Unless you're running very cool builds, Heat Gen from the firepower tree is much better than the coolrun and heat containment in the operations tree. It's like Endo Steel vs Ferro Fibrous in terms of general case power.

    Yaw and pitch increases are only really worth it at a base 100°/30° or more (Urbanmech with 360° yaw excepted). Before that, their impact is too small.

    Coolshot is AMAZING. when fully upgraded, it reduces most mech's heat by 50% or more. Get these nodes on hot builds together with double Coolshot 18s (only coolshot available now).

    100% Radar Derp is much better than 60% radar derp, when they lose sight for 0.2 seconds enemies with target decay don't lose lock unless you run full derp. Either get everything, or don't (mostly do).

    Structure and Armor quirks are very strong, especially on lower tonnage, which gets higher percentages. the HBK-4SP is even tankier than before.

    TBC.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2017
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  14. Shock

    Shock Benefactor

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    I like that there's more customization but it's way too complicated. And I don't like the small increment skill nodes. When I spend a skill point, the difference should be noticeable. Getting a 0.75% cooldown bonus is nothing.

    One thing from the patch that was long overdue is indication in the mech lab of what your quirks and skills are doing to your weapons and armor. It still doesn't show structure HP for some reason.
     
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  15. Excalibaard

    Excalibaard 01001101 01001111 01000100 Staff Member

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    It does show structure HP, but it's in regular white text under your armor values. It's also modified by activated structural thingiemajigger nodes
     
  16. Bustov

    Bustov Active Member

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    I agree that a profile would be nice. Having most success ignoring the weapon enhancement until I have armor structure, agility and mech operations, and sensor systems first. Having just 91 SP to use makes you really think about it. I would like a few trial runs before committing to a build. Not to happy with not getting reimbursed for the hundreds of millions of cbills that I had in modules, thanks PGI. Seems like regardless of assault, heavy, medium or light: the armor structure and mech operations are most important selections.
     
  17. Joe Bopper

    Joe Bopper Well-Known Member

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    I wish there was a way to copy a skill tree to another mech. For example, I have 2 of the same mechs which I want to give the same skills... Gotta go into both trees and respec individually... :(

    @ Bustov: I agree, giving us at least one test run in the training grounds after speccing would be nice.
     
  18. Shock

    Shock Benefactor

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    I'm not sure the survival branch is better than mobility. I think being more agile is going to save you more damage than survival will let you soak. Plus it gets you in better position faster. Certainly for light mechs, mobility is better. Even a 15-20% bonus is only getting you maybe 1 ML worth of extra armor.
     
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  19. Bustov

    Bustov Active Member

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    Shock you are probably correct. I've really done only assault's and heavy's and I go for a brawler build. Only spec'd my Bushwackers for mediums and have not gotten to lights.
     
  20. Aramuside

    Aramuside Advanced Member

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    Have to say after using the skill tree and just skilling up mechs before I use them I'm really liking the skill tree. Now bear in mind I didn't see any reason at all to change it and had an initial very negative opinion before I went onto PTS I'm very pleasantly surprised.

    My only caveat is that as I predicted on the main forums to much ridicule LRM's are now so much more powerful.

    I'd feel smug about that if I could afford radar dep on my mechs but so far none have it. ;)
     

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