Open Article to the Community: What are important factors when YOU build your mechs?

Thread in 'MechWarrior Online' started by Michael, Oct 16, 2012.

  1. Michael

    Michael Grand Poobah

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    So a few of us are going to collaborate on an article for newer players in the hopes of introducing them to the wonderful world of Min/Max and Custom Mech Design. I wanted to get everyone's take so that we don't just have the opinion of one person.

    What would YOU take in to consideration when you are building a mech? Do you focus on role specifics? survivability? balance? heat management? How do YOU plan out things for when you are building a mech?

    Once I get a few opinions (if they are detailed other than responses like 'heat') I'll put together an article and publish it here on MechSpecs with credit to those who contributed.
     
  2. scaramaus

    scaramaus New Member

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    I prefer to play mechs in the scouting or force-recon role. For that I prefer Dragons at the moment.
    So when I look at building a Dragon, these are the priorities (in descending importance)
    - Speed (XL engine, at least 80kph)
    - Heat management (heat eff around 1.2 at least)
    - Firepower (alpha at least 40)
    - Survivability.

    That's my take.
     
  3. Vactus

    Vactus Junior Member

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    I build my mechs with speed in mind, followed by heat efficiency/survivability, weapon load out. I'm a very get in their face and harass the hell out of people kind of pilot. Hence I pilot the JR7-F and -D, as well as a Streak Cat, and my variable load out K2. However, this must be brought into mind of what the group is bringing to a fight. I'm almost always in one of my Jenners for my merc group since for a long time we didn't have many light pilots.

    - What does the group need
    - Speed
    - Heat Efficiency
    - Weapon Loadout
    - Armor
     
  4. LaznAzn

    LaznAzn Junior Member

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    • First thing I look at is hardpoints on each chassis and variant and decide which I want. Sometimes my choice is suboptimal on purpose (it's necessary to try new things) but the the main thing I look at is: Maximum of 1 ballistic slot, energy over missile for lighter chassis, missile over energy for heavier chassis, but optimally at least 2 of either. You also want to know where these slots are located.
    • The next thing to do is to examine the engine options I have. You have to remember that the engine currently plays a role in 4 things: speed, torso twist speed, leg turn speed, heatsinks vs. weight ratio.
    • Start with your armor maxed out, scale it back in 16-point or 32-point intervals where needed. Things to keep in mind is: size/survivability of the hitbox vs. threat it generates. Also remember that if your side torso is eliminated, your arms fall off.
    • Next is your armament, a thing to keep in mind with missile weapons is the number of pods in any missile launcher. For example: The Jenner has 4 missile pods on the model and if an SRM6 is mounted, it will fire in 2 waves: 4 and 2 (with the last 2 generally missing). Interestingly, if you mount two SRM4's all eight will launch simultaneously. This general principle is important for SRMs, and can also be important when mounting LRMs.
    • On to heatsinks! Heatsinks do two things: they dissipate 0.1 heat per second and they increase the heat scale by 1.0. What do both these things mean? Heat dissipation will help your long term heat build up, meaning it is wasted in the short term, for every second you sit at your base heat, you are wasting some of your heatsink's potential. Heat scale will help your short term or burst heat. To get an idea of how heat scale sort of works, lets say you alpha strike with four large pulse lasers, a whopping 36 heat, and you currently have 30 heatsinks. Those heatsinks will do two things, dissipate 3.0 heat per second, somewhat helpful but that will require time, but the heatsinks will also increase your heat scale by 30, meaning that initial alpha strike you just did only generated 6 heat compared to a 'Mech that has 0 heatsinks. Hopefully I didn't confuse you... (I probably did)

      ANYWAYS: Heat dissipation is for long term heat problems, heat scale is for short term heat problems. Both are increased by the number of heatsinks you have.

    Here's what I do in picture form (right click and open in new tab to see a larger version):

    [​IMG]

    By the way: What do you all think of the template in the above area? Is it easy to understand or difficult to decipher?
     
  5. Zekester81

    Zekester81 New Member

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    I base mine on weapons I like to use. I don't care if they are the best weapon, but they have to give the flash I like to see. If they are not the most effective, thats ok, they just have to look good and I will learn to use them effectively. To that end, I use PPCs, pulse lasers(when I can), and ballistics(LB-10-X mostly). My second consideration is armor, as much as possible. Next would be heat, as many HS as I can get on it. I will take an AMS if I have room left but usually don't so I try to take advantage of cover. I like to pop in and out of cover and grind my enemy down. I don't like to close and circle, but it happens.
     
  6. Jacob Ling

    Jacob Ling Benefactor

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    I look at several factors

    The need of the group I am running with is top priority although I do end up in public drops a lot because I'm not with any specific group. Afterall, why take a Raven if there are already one or two scout mechs running, right?

    Next I look at the following three factors...

    - Scalability: Can it fight outside it's weight class?
    - Survivability: Can it last in extended engagements?
    - Heat management: Can I unleash everything it has or do I need to stagger?

    The reason I do it this way is the fact that I am a firm believer in "You can mount as many weapons on a mech as you like but if you can't fire them all, nearly constantly, then they do you no good". Take a look at the Mason Build that Helmer posted on here. It's a pretty good mech with small lasers. Although I don't use it myself I'm sure that mech is quite heat stable which makes it able to continuously dish out punishment at a very high RoF. It also has some pretty good armor rating which means it can hang in the fight long enough and with it's engine being faster (can't remember what he said it runs at) that would help mitigate even more damage. The one thing I don't know about it is its scalability. I was Mason Grimm take out a couple of Atlas once in it though so I'm guessing it's built to fight just about anything.

    I would say those are the most important factors when deciding how to build a mech!
     
  7. Barantor

    Barantor New Member

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    - What does the team need (if with a premade)
    - What do I like (usually a catapult)
    - Will I need backups to the LRMs
    - Heat management

    I run almost exclusively LRM builds and then mostly a version of the catapult (at least till the trebuchet comes out). I have been playing LRM builds since beta started and gone through the many iterations of them (OP, Nerfed, etc). Most of the time the build comes down to if I want to do a sustained fire lrm build or a high burst lrm build.

    The sustained is really good when I know that the scout is going to be more of a brawler or if the brawlers all have tag. This build will keep the pain on the mech and constantly hit them, usually freaking them out a bit and allowing my brawler buddies to get the upper hand.

    The burst build is good when I know that I have to hit only a few times very hard, like if we have a lot more ranged attacks or if I have a feeling with the team metric that I might be doing direct lrm shots. Also good if you know that there are lots of lights or mediums on the other team and you have a good anti-scout that knows how to leg them. Hitting an atlas in the face at just over 180m while he is tagged really draws his attention too :p.
     
  8. Tuku

    Tuku Well-Known Member

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    I build close range brawlers who can take a hit....its what I like to run and its almost all I run. When I am setting one up I look at a few things.

    - Hardpoints
    I like a mix of lasers and ballistics usually....up close fights in the mechs that I normally run tend not to lend themselves to SRMs, If i was running a catapult or even some medium mech sure Id toss SRMs on but missiles are not my style....

    - How many of a weapon type can I add?
    I look at how many lasers and or Ballistic devices I can add, this is important because....well if you have say 4 laser slots and 2 ballistic .... I look at that and see the possibility for lots of things....4 mediums are always fun and 4 large are great if you have the room but 2 large and 2 med lasers just allow you some leeway in a long fight where alpha striking may overheat you. As for the 2 ballistic slots....You could go with 2 smaller higher rate of fire weapons like AC2 / AC5 or UAC5s would be great as well but...I might also go for an LBXAC10 just because I do like the shotgun effect it has in combat....personal preference really.

    Edit, another reason I now like the LBX is because it gives you a chance to crit for each peice of the cluster round....thats 10 crit chances!

    - Can It take a hit....
    Pretty simple here....can I get behind a building or rock if I get in over my head without exploding.

    - Dose it have AMS capabilities...
    In the future who knows, this may not be a problem but right now LRMs can ruin your day in a big slow moving thing if you are not careful. If I can add an AMS and at least one ton of ammo to a mech I ALWAYS DO though this is not a deal breaker if I cant add it. What's armor for if you aren't going to use it!

    hope that's what you need!
     
  9. Crankwerk

    Crankwerk Active Member

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    So in process of tinkering and fiddling with a guideline for the Greyhounds, and made myself a little bullet point list, as it is a WORK IN PROGRESS it is written quite silly in a coma state of mind, but it is a checklist that I think others might benefit designing their Mech, perhaps add to the article...

    Crankwerk Theory-craft Corner

    So you decided to buy a Mech, you took it out for a spin and it did not work as you envisioned it. Do not despair uncle Crank got just the drug you need, now put on your reading glasses and let uncle Crank entice you into the world of Mech design and the Hotel California.


    Quick Breakdown of Terminology used in Mech Warrior Online in regards to Mech Design
    Now as you might have a basic grasp of the meaning of some terminology in regard to Mech design lets move forward so you can tinker pilot, even if your stuck with a rust bucket and want to throw it on the pound, do not despair it is hope or worse yet outsource the tinkering to an off-world specialist, the heresy! :attack Lets analyze the first step of Mech Design:

    1.(Play Style) What do you Want...
    (Role)What role do you want to play?
    • Harasser
    • Skirmisher
    • Scout
    • Generalist
    • Assault
    • Protecter
    • Battlefield Commander
    (Weight Class)What Size do you desire?
    • Light
    • Medium
    • Heavy
    • Assault
    (Text to come with a thought process to figure out if the play style fits the weight class, or how to reach a logic why a Assault can be a Kick Ass Steiner Scout..."hides")

    2.(Weapon Style) What fits your Game...
    - I want to be Short Range!
    • DPS?
    • Alpha Strike?
    • Utility? (Impulse, Tag, so forth)
    - I want to be Medium Range!
    • DPS?
    • Alpha Strike?
    • Utility? (Impulse, Tag, so forth)
    - I want to be Long Range!
    • DPS?
    • Alpha Strike?
    • Utility? (Impulse, Tag, so forth)
    - I want to Cover all Range Brackets!
    • DPS?
    • Alpha Strike?
    • Utility? (Impulse, Tag, so forth)
    - I want to be Indirect Support
    • Sniper
    • LRM
    • Combination of both
    (Text to come with an evaluation that should be done Pro/Con style)

    3. (Engine/Speed)Whats the
    • minimum speed required for your role
    • desired speed you crave
    • engine size to utilize engine heat sink with potential double heat sink
    • engine size for desired twist/turn speed

    4.(Mech choices) Picking your Mech Variant
    Now dear puppy you have a basic outline of what you want, what you desire, what your purpose is on the battlefield. Time to pick the Mech Chassis.

    What Mech Variant can/do
    • what I desire
    • it take on the role I so desire
    • does the weapons the variant support fall into my range bracket, DPS/Utility and/or Alpha strike potential I want/require.
    • it support the speed I minimum require and potentially desire
    • it have weight left to put in weapons.
    • place heat sinks.

    Now you might think all is said and done young one, but you are so sorely mistaken, this is were most pilots fail. When they start on their first few mechs outfitting, they disregard so many little things. We have barely gotten started...

    5.(Heat Maintenance) Heat Dissipation , Heat per Second and Total Heat level of your Mech and you..
    (text to be added)

    6. (Weapon Consideration) Maximizing Weapon Output in regards to your chosen Role and Mech Size
    (text to be added)

    7. (Upgrades) Pros and Cons going higher Tech, what you need to consider
    (text to be added)

    8. (Modules) What you need to have in mind picking your module
    (text to be added)

    9. (Contribution) So you have now a Mech that is shiny, newly oiled in your MechBay what does it bring to the battlefield..
    (text to be added)

    10. (Team Requirement) Does your Mech build need support, does the con of needing backup outweight cons..
    (text to be added)

    11. (Economy) How is the Mech to maintain, estimate your earnings and losses.
    (text to be added)

    Now pilot, if you gone through the 11 point checklist creating your Mech, you should have a shiny new ride that will be the envy of the Inner Sphere, go out there and make Uncle Crank proud!




    Disclaimer: This Text will be edited, it is a work in progress - but an outline for a Design Philosophy. The Uncle Crank part will disappear when it is finished. To reflect a more serious tone. Would love to hear what I've forgotten and what you think needs to be added.
     
  10. Michael

    Michael Grand Poobah

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    This is excellent work so far Crank!

    I'm actually putting a guide together for the article sections and this has given me much to think about in terms of how to present ideas and data to prospective readers; combined with other members contributions I might actually have enough to work with.
     
  11. Crankwerk

    Crankwerk Active Member

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  12. tallnob

    tallnob New Member

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    For a front line mech, Sustained DPS with a high alpha. The AWS is a favorite for this sort of thing due to the missile/energy only hardpoints allowing for max LRM/SRM Laser builds with good heat dissapation and decent survivability.

    You can get yourself into a bit of trouble by restricting weapon types/ranges, but that is primarily a limitation of the pilot rather than the mech.

    Of course there is quite a lot that goes into consideration for a mech due to heat issues. I think when they settle on the DHS we will have a better idea about upcoming builds.

    Still, that sort of min/max approach can be a little boring after a while. I find myself enjoying stock configs far more when pubbing.
     
  13. Crankwerk

    Crankwerk Active Member

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    So improved on the original layout, hopefully might be usefull for some, but still I a work in progress.

    Dr. Crankwerk's Simple Mech Build Guide

    -or how you came to Understand and Love the Mechbay

    To create a Mech build that you want pilot, there is a need to understand your combat style and the role your mech fulfills on the MechWarrior battlefield.This is not imperative for others to understand your build, but it is for you to love the build you come up with. This short text is to list a few tips and tricks to design a better Mech suited your piloting needs in the MechWarrior Online environment.

    Breakdown of Terminology you need to know: .

    [TABLE=width: 500, align: center]
    [TR]
    [TD=align: left]Alpha Strike[/TD]
    [TD]Is the Mechs direct damage potential in one salvo.[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Impulse[/TD]
    [TD]In MWO it is the shake you experience when hit by a weapon with this statistic[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Chain Fire[/TD]
    [TD]A fire rotation going through all weapons in a weapon group from top to bottom[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Heat Sink[/TD]
    [TD]Is a component that adds to your Mechs total heat level, also affects your heat dissipation.[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]HPS[/TD]
    [TD]Heat Per Second - how much heat is generated in a second[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]Heat Dissipation[/TD]
    [TD]The Mechs ability to move out the heat of the machine, so you do not overheat.[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    Now there will not be a general theory outline or debate in this text for what is the ultimate heat dissipation and so forth, there is other excellent threads to follow already in existence elsewhere to read and follow -they will evolve as the battlefield and tech evolve. This is a guideline on what you as a pilot should consider(or do) to create a Mech with a focus and purpose.

    Understand your own Pilot Combat Style


    You might already know, if so skip over this - if not to understand your own game style and how you prefer there is a few questions you should ask yourself;

    -Is it unsubtle, brute force?

    -Do you prefer to hang back and not directly engage?

    -Do you like long range, brutal area of effect shelling?


    -Perhaps your looking for a more subtle, controlling type of force?

    After considering those questions above and evaluated them you should have a clear outline on what your play style is. If in doubt you might want to ask a fellow pilot. Then you should pilot, test in a Rent-A-Mech-Wreck that this is indeed your combat style.


    Deciding The Mech Design Philosophy

    When you design your first Mech it should preferable be designed after the pilot will recommend you to design it after your own play style, but I know Mechs not always is designed after your play style, but a group environment or a need on the battlefield. To help you optimize your build further there is a few questions that needs to be answered.

    Decide the Purpose for the Mech Build

    this have to be done early as it will affect the rest of your philosophy. Pilot these question will help you move forward

    -What role should the Mech fulfill on the battlefield?
    Command Mech, Skirmisher, Recon, Scout, Observer, Direct Fire Support, Indirect Fire Support, Protector, Tank Assault, Generalist and or so forth

    -What Mech Category can do this role?
    (Light,Medium,Heavy or Assault)

    Things to consider when evaluating Mech Category, does the Mech class within the category have space, sufficient speed, profile, etc. to do the tasks it has to fulfill within the role or roles it will take on the battlefield of the galaxy

    Now you should have a purpose and a goal, this should dictate the build philosophy,time to move on to next part

    Aligning the Philosophy with the Sexy Shiny Mech in the Shop

    Now now pilot calm down, show some impulse control! The process gets harder, you need to steer the philosophy that your created with your chosen role, weight class and combat style. Hopefully aligning it with your philosophy so your able to pilot that sexy new Atlas AS7-DD with that gorgeous Pin-Up girl paint job you saw in the Steiner Academy Showcase Booth. But that would be getting ahead of ourselves here, there is a few simple consideration to be had keeping previous choices in mind



    -How do you want to deal damage?
    DPS, Alpha Strike or in the middle

    -Weapon Type preference?

    Ballistic, Missile, Energy or a Combination

    -With two other answers from previous in mind, which weapons fits the bill?

    As you have now outlined DPS or Alpha Strike and/ or selected types of weaponry that you prefer. You should consult a chart and write down weapons that fall within desired

    -Do you need Utility?
    Tag, Impulse,Command Console, etc - this might be a requirement to fulfill your role but might also consider for added surviability or grievance to your opponent

    -Do you need Speed?

    To survive, scout, maneuver, etc

    Now your ready to pick your shiny new Mech to terrorize the battlefield with the considerations in mind above, you should by design philosophy, speed required, weaponry choices have the information required to pick a proper Mech variant such as the new shiny Atlas AS7-DD! Before going into the shop check if a Rent-A-Mech-Wreck(Trial Mech) version is available of the Mech variant that fit the bill, so you can test out the Mech before potentially wasting hard earned C-bills.

    Building the Beast
    This part is simple, insert your desired load-out in the Mech chassis you have selected, pilot I can not stress this enough, this should be accordance with the decisions made previously as this is your design philosophy, it outlines your purpose and intent.So it should be in accordance with your role, weapons, and utility.

    Now sit back and look on what you got, pilot do not despair it might look messy but it is time to streamline and evaluate, this part is harder - first you need to streamline it. This should not be to hard, go over the few pointers below

    Heat Dissipation
    What you need is dependent on if your focusing on Alpha Strikes, Quick Damage Over a Short Time Frame or Damage Over Time ( DPS ). Now if your DPS focused you need a fairly high heat dissipation meaning you need to find space for quite a bit of heat-sinks to start you of I would argue aim for 1.4-1.6, adjust after playstyle. If previous one, the number can be lower but should be over 1.1 ideally

    Engine Size
    You most likely aimed for a large engine for best possible speed and twist rate, how low can you go before it affect your intent ( design philosophy ) while upping your damage contribution

    Armor
    How much armor is needed to do the job outlined by the intent created, do the build need more, or can you lower it to make room for more heat-sinks, ammo, etc

    Upgrades
    Endo-Steel Structure: Do I need to drop weight? Can I spare 14 Critical Structure points
    Ferro-Fibrous Armor: Armor and/or Drop weight? Can I spare 14 Critical Structure points
    Double Heat-Sinks: Do I have room to keep same level of Heat Dissipation and save weight?Do I need to save weight, yet keep same Heat Dissipation, etc

    Modules
    You have few slots for modules and adding a command console uses quite a bit of weight, so considerations to make before buying one, does it add something to the purpose,mission of the Mech

    Evaluate the Mech Build

    Now Pilot, there is a sexy new Mech there, new wet paint sitting in the MechBay, but it is not finished just yet. There is a few considerations to keep in mind

    -Is it True to the Design Philosophy?
    Did you stay true to the intent, purpose that you had in mind, if not is it better suited for a different role/task or more versatile. If you can not say argue more pros then cons, back to scratch.

    -What does it bring to the Battlefield?
    Simple you outlined it already, does it deliver above and beyond.

    -Does it need support?
    If yes does the pros out-weight the cons of having the Mech supported

    -Can you Maintain this shiny hunk of a Machine deity?
    if answer is no, consider buying in some backup materials to run it el-cheapo

    Conclusion

    Overall if you dear Mech pilot follow these few steps, you should have a good capable Mech, most likely out performing most other Mechs out there. It should only be down to your own capabilities now

    Cranking the Last Drop of Power Out of the Machine God

    Now now for some pilots, having a Mech better than most does not just cut it, they want a Machine God, to achieve this Crank machine will try to outline the next few steps of getting to the step making to able to create the Machine of Legends.

    First, slap yourself pilot, wake up a bit - you do not know everything there is to know about Mech piloting, if you did you would not be here, use the tools available in this millennium capitalize on sources as this one MechSpecs, throw out the ego for a bit and discuss your build with others, evaluate their input and compare it with your experience piloting your machine. What does it add to it and were can it take it next.

    Now, lets move on to the next bit, you want to Min/Max your Mech, meaning in short Minimize your weakness while Maximizing your strengths. In MechWarrior Online is not as straight forward as it might appear, consulting different forums, discussions being conducted there should be your main source after your own data or baseline data derived directly from the game.

    To help you start of you should give up any silly notion that energy/ballistic/missile weapon are only way to go, it will steer you off in the long end, there is just raw damage output, that matters either in Direct Damage or Damage over time, while reducing downtime in form of Heat Dissipation. But do not forget the intent of your build and disregard utility, quite a few Min/Max do and can not for the life of them understand what went wrong.Changing your load-out accordingly should put you in a good start towards Maximizing your build

    Minimize your build weaknesses is to minimize the weakness in according to your play-style and design philosophy. This is not as straight forward.



     
  14. Zeke Steiner

    Zeke Steiner New Member

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    My computers processing speed plays a role honestly (Ah ha ha ...ha...sigh). That means I don't build mechs that go over 100kph.
    On a serious note and in descending order of importance:
    -Weapon range
    -Weapon Location (Weapons on the arms make a big difference)
    -Mechs weaknesses (I prefer using mediums or Heavies for this reason)
    -Cost vs Efficacy (If the mechs only slightly better than the standard variant and costs twice as much, than its not worth it)
     
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