[Player Council Feedback] Player Council - Next Steps - Russ Bullock

Thread in 'MechWarrior Online' started by enileph, Sep 23, 2014.

  1. Michael

    Michael Grand Poobah

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    Ping means nothing. I have a 25 ping and when I alpha strike twin PPCs and twin AC5s most of the damage doesn't register.
     
  2. Karl TenBrew

    Karl TenBrew Star Lord

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    Game Modes I think are coming, but not as highly prioritized as we all would like.

    Ditto Achievements.

    Role Warfare would be nice, but afraid it's even lower priority for them (and shouldn't be!)

    On the other end:
    Zellbrigen is simply not going to happen...outside the possible fringe case of the achievement system. Even if the devs hadn't already made a pronouncement that Zellbrigen was unworkable in the game we have, the very nebulous nature of some of its strictures (Moving out of line of sight of your enemy is dezgra, except when it isn't. Not firing weapons when able is dezgra, except when it isn't. Melee attacks are maybe dezgra...except when they're maybe not.). Any player can CHOOSE to play this way, but even asking for it to happen in MWO in a way that satisfies Clan RPers is the equivalent of asking for us to have world peace tomorrow and end world hunger the day after. And all of THAT is ignoring the canonically lore that Zellbrigen was not only interpreted differently by each Clan and held differently by each warrior, but functionally collapsed during the Clan Invasion.

    Please, please, please, PLEASE stop asking for Zellbrigen in game, because the only 'solution' we're going to get is overly arbitrary achievements or the outright response 'that's up to the community to enforce within their own player made Units.' Asking for / expecting Zellbrigen in MWO is not helping anyone.


    Also, they've already said MASC is basically a dead duck, as the current tech is at, or even past, its limit for mech speeds and any kind of reasonable behavior in game (hit detection, game sync, w/e). Short of an a literal game engine change, MWO is not likely to see it anytime even resembling Soon[tm]. The earliest I would expect this would be two years in the future when/if they manage to solve the issues the highest speed mechs CURRENTLY have, never-mind the persistent problems with connectivity and hit registration regularly.
     
  3. Blagg Zear

    Blagg Zear Star Lord

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    If CW starts there could be a Game Mode where Units can call for Zellbrigen against other Units aka 1v1 Battles. I think Players would love to fight High Noon Duels (small Arena Maps required). The other Unit Members could join in Spectator Mode. An official transparent Honor System Leaderboard among all Units would be a cool Motivator for this Game Mode. Specific Honor Rulesets could be chosen before the Battle begins. It's clear that a 1:1 Translation of Lore Zellbrigen to MWO is impossible.

    They said that MASC in the traditional sense is not possible with the CryEngine, but when max speed is limited why not go for an Acceleration Boost instead? It's not 1:1 Lore, but we want to talk about solutions to bring in the MASC Mechs.
     
  4. Blagg Zear

    Blagg Zear Star Lord

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    Yes that's the Hit Registration Issue. But ask Enileph about how the game feels like if the Pings are exorbitantly high. You have Lags and Discos all the time, that's even worse.
     
  5. Karl TenBrew

    Karl TenBrew Star Lord

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    That would fall under alternate game modes, and is still probably better implemented by the community using private matches that are videoed. While technically possible, I'm guessing diehard Clanners will be unhappy with the compromise being touted as Zellbrigen when the system would be forcing duels (so rather than player enforced consequences for cheating and the potential to devolve into a melee, no one can cheat period). I'm also guessing that hard-coding those types of limits is a resource sink PGI is unwilling to pursue even at the 1v1 level at this time, thought 'duel maps' are probably on their radar but low priority. I can see a limited form of it making its way into the game sometime next year or the year after that (keeping in mind there's only 3 months left in the current year), but I doubt even hard-coding build restrictions as selectable for entry into a private match is going to happen Soon[tm]. And you can bet dollars to doughnuts that there will be some kind of vote-system for pairings or a direct MOBA-copied select screen for people to lock in, with no end of complaining from everyone who tries and how no one is satisfied with the system. The closest satisfactory thing I can see would be a 1v1 queue that emulates Arena fighting or lone dueling and searching within 5-10 tons, which should only require map assets to actually do and would just be the outright alternate game mode 'Duel'. Whether it's called Honor Duel, or Pit Fight or Solaris, it would be good to have, but it wouldn't be Zellbrigen.


    I could see some implementation of MASC as a +% Accel/Decel, but if implemented that way it would probably need to also be drawbackless (aside from tonnage, chance to freeze a mech's actuators would probably be scrapped) or generate heat. If people want it in that form, I could see it, but I also see it causing trouble. The other implementation I could see using (but also causing trouble) is a similar method that would be an immediate speed hike while moving...I know that sounds like acceleration, but I'm talking about bypassing acceleration altogether and using it more like an unlimited module. First use jumps your current move speed up by X kph but not higher than your maximum speed, next use starts to incur risk if used within Y seconds. So basically, the way ghost heat works but with a different timer and probably internal structure damage as the risk. The main problem with either implementation is the limits of the Cry engine and the potential to create phasing-like maneuvers. We already lag and JJ in game, replicating grounded lag-shield just strikes me as asking for problems.
     
  6. Blagg Zear

    Blagg Zear Star Lord

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    Yes i agree with you on your points. It is not reasonable to bring Lore stuffs 1:1 into MWO just to satisfy Diehard-Clanners or Diehard-Spheroids, simply because the Majority of the Playerbase doesn't even know the Lore but rather wants to play Arcade Shooter with big stompy good looking Mechs. So to please the Majority we need to steer a middle way - bringing in Lore Stuff in a simplified functioning gameplay. I like your idea of 5-10t difference limitation for somehow a fair battle. I disagree with 1v1 Search queue because calling for Zellbrigen means pointing your Fingers directly on someone. That works for Unit Calls - you show the called Unit your Mech Chassis and they can send someone with 5-10t difference to the duel. PGI could make a whole TV Show Twitch Stream and hype the Game. And it brings MWO closer to becoming E-Sports.

    I see the same probable problems with Acceleration Boost MASC, but it's a good Approach to bring MASC Mechs into the Game. Lag Shielding would be an issue but maybe that might make sense for having MASC - you get an advantage but you risk some Penalty like e.g. Internal Damage.
     
  7. enileph

    enileph Star Lord

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    Zellbrigen is just not something that would be nice in a game mode, too much roleplaying involved rather than solid rules than can be programmed in, and having a human judge is just going to induce infinite bitching (I know I would fucking bitch if that motherfucker make a mistake a wronged me). Remember, even in the story each clan have a slightly different view on it. If anything they can have either a free-for-all mode, or a duel mode where two mech duel(or trial-of mode) and other can spectate.

    So, just SAY NOT TO ZELLBRIGEN

    As for MASC, I would say it should be a combination of the below instead of the TT/LORE version
    1) Only available to chasses with pre-mounted MASC, just like ECM This would already solve many problems.
    2) A max speed is determined according to that (the book max speed plus whichever the system can take). Say, if you limit max engine to 160 for the flee there won't be much of a problem in speed.
    3) You have great bonus to turn, accel/decell and jump forward
    4) Cause of the difference in bonus the penalty is different. When the MASC is on (switched on like AMS now) there is a small but continuous damage on the leg internal structure every few ticks.
     
  8. Soy

    Soy Min-Max Maniac

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    enileph, the thing about zellbrigen is that it should be in, and it should be a dirty loop-holed thing that causes problems.

    Why?

    Cuz that's what actually happens with zellbrigen in BT/MW.

    It's not all cut and dry. Chivalry isn't law. War is fucked up, things happen.

    If anything, having 'problems' with it would make it even more realistic from a canon standpoint and from a dynamic community standpoint.

    It should be in the game, and programmed in an analog open manner with various things popping off of it, in which the ramifications and dynamics of it create issues due to player decisions and interactions that they actively have to deal with. It should cause problems, at the discretion of the players and their decisions.
     
  9. enileph

    enileph Star Lord

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    It would be interesting in a CW perspective in a role-playing special event mybe. It is like trying to pull a "batchall" on the clans before battle and then scamming them. It worked in the stories, but in-game it creats much bitching, which is a bad thing.

    Remmber, most people know little of the universe, and it should not be "required reading" on these things to play this game.
    I would love to see many things to be in the game lore-wise, but I also know it is stupid in terms of game mechanics.

    I can say that IS side of a battle should be able to summon more non-mech units, or that different clans should have different variations of traditions to follow. Clan players should pass trails before they pilot mech, and bear clan should go thru their rituals and what not... but it would be stupid game-wise.
     
  10. Soy

    Soy Min-Max Maniac

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    Trials, good way to limit things......... bah, so much has been squandered already.
     
  11. SirBurntChicken

    SirBurntChicken Well-Known Member

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    Soy, I agree. I don't know if they always meant the game to be what it is now or if they painted themselves into a corner, but they seem to lack either the imagination or the ability to make a truly great game. I feel bad for the founders and everyone who's been around for a long time. A lot was promised and all that's really been delivered is different mechs to play team death match with. CW might add a some, but probably less than most diehards hope for. My honest opinion is that they are trying now, but to make the game incredible would take too much time and work.
     
  12. The Verge

    The Verge Moderator Staff Member

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    I would say it's going to take 2 more years before it's in a state before it's called a good game, so I'll wait around and watch this arcade game with a scornful frown until then; while piloting my free Centurion AH and Atlas S and King Crab P
     
  13. Michael

    Michael Grand Poobah

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    It must be nice to still be in high school, with your whole life in front of you, as well as the time to wait for PGI to get it right. :D :cool:
     
  14. The Verge

    The Verge Moderator Staff Member

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    that was 3 years ago. I'm just patient; and mad.
     
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