RFL-5D "Knifleman" (6xMPL, 1xML, STD275)

Thread in 'RFL-5D' started by VanBurenPhilips, Mar 8, 2016.

  1. VanBurenPhilips

    VanBurenPhilips Active Member

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    [​IMG]

    EDIT
    *credit to Spheroid and Pooty, this is the weapon set they suggested*

    I didn't know Medium Lasers and Medium Pulse are treated separately for the purposes of ghost heat! Now I know that, I've changed this build to something more sensible:

    Can obviously alpha strike pretty frequently, is also really really good fast chain-firing (tapping the button) if you're in a situation where you don't need to shield.
    I stuck with 7 weapons just to cram that last bit of space with a heat sink - it's got abundant cooling so you could easily drop one or two if you want more speed, armour or maybe an eighth weapon.
    The order I have the lasers in here puts the medium laser in the lowest arm hardpoint.

    ORIGINAL POST FOLLOWS:



     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2016
  2. Spheroid

    Spheroid Well-Known Member

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    If you mix and match mlas and mplas you can avoid ghost heat. I would go six mplas and one mlas.
     
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  3. enileph

    enileph Star Lord

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    That one great paintjob.
     
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  4. Solahma

    Solahma Star Lord

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    It's a slot issue for his STD build, or else yeah, run 2x ML in the CT and 6x MPL in the arms. IMO it would be worth droping a DHS to do that, and to add more armor. 8 Head armor on a heavy, IMO, is absolutely terrible. You are a much easier target for an insta-death arty headshot. Also, dual gauss to the face will kill you 100% of the time instead of ~50% of the time. Also, I'm not a fan of stripping any torso armor and the legs are already stripped pasts comfort levels. For a mech that can only succeed by getting withing 300m, you need as much armor as you can, near max IMO. The cooling is NOT worth a faster death for yourself. In other words, you'll die faster due to less armor than you will kill faster due to more heat capacity/dissipation gained from the 1-2 DHS.

    I'd run it like this:



    Actually, there is already a build thread for this. You're post is just a personalized version and you should really just post it there:
    https://www.mechspecs.com/threads/rfl-5d-german-nightclub-8x-mplas-std280.10618/

    Running one less MPL, a slightly smaller engine, or more/less DHS doesn't make it a completely different build.
     
  5. The Verge

    The Verge Moderator Staff Member

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    whelp, looks like I will have to work on defining what an Alt is in the FAQ. I may have to lock this thread during that process, so please stand by for updates.
     
  6. VanBurenPhilips

    VanBurenPhilips Active Member

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    [​IMG]

    RFL games so far: 136
    8 or 10 head armour, sub-40 leg armour on most builds
    3N(S) and 5D always 8 & 30-34
    Number of times head armour breached: 1
    Number of times legged: 2
     
  7. Solahma

    Solahma Star Lord

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    RFL games so far: 82
    16 head armour, 40 plus leg armour on most builds
    Number of times head armour breached: 0
    Number of times legged: 0

    Your number of deaths is likely to increase at a much faster rate than mine, especially the number of head shots. Is it worth the extra damage you'd be able to inflict?

    With 8 head armor, that's a total of 23 damage required by the enemy. In just ballistic weapons, there are MANY combinations to achieve that number.

    A SINGLE AC20 shot will kill you if it scores a SINGLE crit (23 damage). That's about 50/50 chance one AC20 hitting your head will kill you. A single gauss hit with a triple crit could also kill you (23.2 damage). A Dual AC10 hit, both with a single crit (23 damage). Including the things that could already instantly kill you like an arty hit, dual gauss, or dual AC20. That's allowing a lot of extra potential for instant death. I'm glad it's only happened to you once in over one hundred games, but i've had it happen with MORE armor more often in other mechs. Also, the size of the RFL head is actually rather large and easier to hit than most mechs. Being located near center mass doesn't help either.

    Aside from that, I can agree with stripped leg armor on a peek mech. Its legs are at a reduced risk. However, on this MPL build specifically, you're at a greater danger of getting legged because you're going to be MUCH closer to the enemy. This leaves less opportunity to hide your legs using cover and more opportunity for your opponent to have an advantageous shot on your legs. Sure, leg shooting doesn't happen all the time, but smart pilots will see weak legs due to an artillery strike or scrape damage. with 30-34 armor, one artillery strike can strip you to internals. After that, your opponent is MUCH more likely to capitalize and shoot for them, even when he typically wouldn't gun for legs.

    For these reasons, I'd rather sacrifice the extra ~10 burst damage from adding a single DHS and avoid all of the above situation to the best of my ability.

    The numbers:
    Removing a single heatsink from the 7 MPL build will reduce your sustained DPS by 0.24 and your "damage till overheat" by 12. Time till overheat drops from 16s to 15s.
     
  8. POOTYTANGOSAUR

    POOTYTANGOSAUR Well-Known Member

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    Like enileph said, sweet paint. But the build is sacrificing too much for those few extra dhs. I run quite a few builds that are fitting pretty much the absolute max number of dhs the mech can carry, but in this situation I don't think it's worth it. If instead of compensating for ghost heat with extra dhs, you bypass it with mpls/mlas mix, the build can run a higher alpha for pretty similar heat.

    Reference the thread solahma linked if you would like to min/max a bit more.

    I'd run it like this:
     
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  9. VanBurenPhilips

    VanBurenPhilips Active Member

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    Huh, I had no idea Medium and Med Pulse were treated differently for the purposes of ghost heat, I thought they were counted together. Well that's much better... will change this build in light of that.

    Sol, it's good to have a grasp of the numbers and potential dangers, I do too, but if you pay more heed to what's in your head than what happens in game you're putting the cart before the horse imo. That stuff isn't happening to me, it's not a significant risk, I'm happy to go with what the game tells me. For me it's a nice surprise when it defies expectations.

    Also, it's a fun build so y'know... let's not take it so seriously.
     
  10. Solahma

    Solahma Star Lord

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    We comment on builds and propose alternate lines of thinking because it benefits the reader. I give equal heed to the numbers, my own experience, and player's experience that I trust.

    I would never recommend someone run extremely low leg or head armor unless they personally felt comfortable with it. That's why, as a baseline build, i would suggest more armor for a better all-around build. Then user can make those sacrifices themselves.
     
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