Sauce - Episode 11 (A Post JJ Nerf Film)

Thread in 'MechWarrior Online' started by Soy, Jun 5, 2013.

  1. Soy

    Soy Min-Max Maniac

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXNUpOdNkaw#ws
    Sauce - Episode 11 (Victor fights Clan Invasion, spectates Soy)


    Skip to 8:00 for actual MWO footage (or click the external link). Everything I ever wanted to say about the changes in the patch is there.


    The stuff before 8 mins is, well, it's fan fiction. I hope you enjoy, but more importantly, I hope you see what it's actually like poptarting after the patch.


    Comments and criticism welcome.


    All footage was shot on June 4th, day1 of the patch.

    [repost from game balance subsection on official forums]

    ps - cattra kell makes a cameo
     
  2. FuzzyBunny

    FuzzyBunny MechSpecs Addict

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    Great video. It's always nice to see a master of their craft at work. Well done sir!
     
  3. Soy

    Soy Min-Max Maniac

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    Thanks man, I put a lot of work into this lol (like 20-25 hours past 4 days)

    I hope it's entertaining but I did try and make a statement about how things really are for poptarting...
     
  4. Fherot

    Fherot Benefactor

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    Semi-entertaining for 3 PPC catazzzz (No offense, but I must stand by my code of honor!)

    But good video otherwise.

    However, I can't even watch someone else JJ now with the shake. Ugh.

    Was hard to actually watch it. I can do the hop, get to apex and drift down and hit stuff fine but that initial jump just destroys the urge to want to use them. I get a headache real fast.

    I dropped the JJ on my Heavy Metal but now it's just a shitty Atlas... Can't really brawl with all the weapons so exposed on arms.
     
  5. Marec

    Marec Well-Known Member

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    I'd love to comment, but it seems I can't watch the video in my country because of the music you used - it's blocked by youtube.
     
  6. Vorus

    Vorus Active Member

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    Don't get me wrong, you have great aim, and great timing. But this just kind of makes me believe even more strongly that pinpoint damage needs a nerf. It's just not as much fun to play when you can pump 30 damage into one component at pretty much any range. I get that it takes skill to do it repeatedly, but the skill needed to do it 50% of the time is MUCH less. In other words, it's too easy for someone with far less skill than you to do the same thing, just not as often as you.

    I hate seeing Mechs get cored when their side torsos still have armor. I think Mechs should die because they've been royally chewed up, not because someone was allowed to put an alpha strike dead center.
     
  7. Marec

    Marec Well-Known Member

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    But Mechs don't die because their side torsos get royally chewed up - the kill zones are center torso, head, or both legs. So it's only natural to aim for those first, especially when it's difficult on some chassis to hit anything BUT the center torso.
     
  8. Vorus

    Vorus Active Member

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    Granted. I don't think it's the fault of the users, they SHOULD aim for the CT. I just don't think they should be capable of high damage alpha strikes dead on their target. There needs to be something (boating nerf, less convergence, PPC splash damage, I don't know which method is the best to combat this) to prevent easily dumping large amounts of damage into a small area.

    What I'd like to see is even when everyone's aiming for the CT, Mechs still take a significant amount of damage to the other torso components, so that by the time they die, they feel like they've been thoroughly thrashed, instead of sniped.
     
  9. Marec

    Marec Well-Known Member

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    If you spread damage all over the target then what's the point in even aiming ? I understand it sucks when you walk along and BAM - game over. But that far from happens all the time, and just artificially making guns suck so the fights last longer ... thanks, but no thanks. I'd get one hell of a flashback to Star Trek Online: They had a good ground combat game there in beta, then they listened to complaints that it all happens too fast, soldiers being too powerful, battlets too powerful - in the end it ended with engineers putting up a lot of towers, and a boring trench fight that would last forever. I did't play STO even tho I had a preorder - I cancelled it. When STO became F2P I tried it again, and NOONE did any ground maps. It was in the game, but dead as rock, killed by 'improvements' that just catered towards the boring.
    There is such a thing as overnerfing.
    Like here in MWO, how for example are you supposed to defend against a smaller, more agile mech dancing around you with anything except single aimed silver bullets ? You will not keep high DPS on them, that's for sure.
    If you can no longer destroy a mech with pinpoint damage, then noone will even bother taking cover anymore - what for ?
     
  10. Vorus

    Vorus Active Member

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    I'm not saying remove aiming, or make aiming pointless. But there are too many pinpoint weapons that are too easy to boat with. Changing PPCs to splash damage instead of pinpoint fixes that without removing PPC boating. (Boating Gauss isn't as much of a problem because fewer Mechs can do it, and it takes more tonnage per unit of damage.) Or you could simply make boating PPCs impossible, which doesn't touch aiming at all, but still reduces the amount of alpha strike pinpoint damage.

    Again, I'm not saying changing AIMING is the way to go, I don't really care how it happens, but high pinpoint damage at low tonnage cost NEEDS to change.

    As for it not happening that often, I see it 4-6xPPC boating quite a bit. Granted, they don't always core things right away, but only those sorts of setups have the option to do so quickly and with little skill and cost.

    How can you still kill Lights? Again, I didn't say they should remove pinpoint AIMING, I said they should solve high pinpoint damage. You don't need to do 60 PPC damage to kill a light, 1 PPC a few times will do the trick. Or a couple shots of 2xPPC. Or 1 Gauss and a couple of lasers. It takes a little more time, but more importantly, more skill.

    Why bother taking cover? Easy, to avoid damage.

    Again, I never said nerf AIMING, aiming is an essential part of the skillset for MWO. But there needs to be SOMETHING to prevent people from dumping 60 damage into someone's CT from 700m, while using 45-50 tons to do it.

    You see, PPCs do 1.43 damage per ton. (The highest of any sniper weapon by 43%.) And they have great range, and they have no ammo. And they do pinpoint INSTANT damage. As an example, put an XL300 in a K2, load it with PPCs. You can get 30 damage at 4.43 DPS at 59% CE with only 32 tons of PPCs and DHS. To match that damage with Gauss, you need to use 36 tons, but you only get 30 shots per Gauss Rifle. Plus, the Gauss Rifles are also fragile and dangerous weapons for you to carry, while the PPCs are not.

    I don't think there are any two ways about it, PPCs are THE weapon to use. They have too many advantages and not enough disadvantages, so people are boating them, and it's making the game worse. They need to have their high pinpoint damage ability reduced.
     
  11. UntamedZer0

    UntamedZer0 Well-Known Member

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    I like what they did with JJs. It really demonstrated the number of skill-less players who just pop tarded. Have heard a lot of tales of people leaving and I say good riddance. Perhaps next time cross train and don't become a one trick pony in a beta where the meta isn't fixed lol. I can still hit people while jumping, not precisely, but it isn't impossible. It is just difficult as it should be. I am beginning to notice a lot less boats though. Perhaps these people have finally started realizing that in a way they are hurting the game for themselves.

    Edit P.S to Soy: Your fan fic makes me sad because I believe it demonstrates the overwhelming assault of the clans and how futile the IS's fight felt at first with the mixed units scurrying trying to survive the Clans march. It makes me sad because I know it will never be presented properly in MWO and we will never get the full feeling. If the technology wasn't there it wouldn't bother me but we all know that the technology IS there, but the will of the developers to create it and the patience of the gamer to wait for it is not. None the less from day 1 I decided to be on the front lines for the IS fighting an overwhelming adversary. These were the reasons (plus a love for vikings) I chose to be FRR. It's going to be at the heart of some major fighting soon, or so we would hope. Your vid also demonstrates the invasions time line and how we are quickly falling outside of it.
     
  12. FuzzyBunny

    FuzzyBunny MechSpecs Addict

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    As I'm working through my machines it appears to me that my Heavy Metal has WAY more shake then my 3D. Anyone else have both and willing to take a look to see if it's just me?
     
  13. Soy

    Soy Min-Max Maniac

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    Good posts guys, good discussion, thanks!

    PS Untamed, you're first person to talk about the fan fic so I appreciate that considering it's the bulk of the video ^^ your thoughts are pretty much accurate and some of the reasons for my impetus in putting that stuff in the vid in first place. Thanks
     
  14. LT Satisfactory

    LT Satisfactory Benefactor

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    Confused - didn't watch all 8 minutes of match video, but I didn't see any poptarting on this. You jump, land, fire. Or, you jump, .5 seconds from landing-fire, then land. I didn't see a single instance of you starting in cover, jumping/firing, landing in cover.

    Is that your statement - you can't fire close to the top of the jump curve anymore but you can still wreck people because of your superior aim? If so, I don't see the negative and you reinforced the position PGI took. (Granted they need to tidy up some things with the shake/reticule and *possibly* looking at tonnage differences more, but when do they ever get anything right the first time?)
     
  15. Morgana

    Morgana Dispossessed

    If it was always right the first time, they wouldn't need us, the Beta Testers. If it's not right by release it's no one's fault but out own for failing to do our part. It always amazes me that the people that usually bitch the most, have probably never submitted one single support ticket or posted an issue in the Support & Feedback section of the MWO forums.
     
  16. LT Satisfactory

    LT Satisfactory Benefactor

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    lol, hot topic for Morgana... Sorry if you took my side comment so out of context from what I meant since I thought it pretty clearly stated that I am generally in favor of what they did and that they only need to make minor updates to the overall programming they already put in.

    And besides, this isn't a support ticket issue; it's an overall gameplay decision and as such is not subject to 'support'... Now, when you die or spec'ing when someone is jumping and they die and you continue to see the JJ shake - that is a support ticket issue. And believe me, I've contributed plenty of Patch note items about Seismic Sensor and it completely ruining the game :)
     
  17. Soy

    Soy Min-Max Maniac

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    ...of course.

    Were you under the impression that this video was a complaint about the nerf, or something?

    All the old poptarters were bad. That's simplest way I can describe it. 99 out of 100 tarts you saw before were bandwagoning flavor, they weren't legit at the tactic.
     
  18. Morgana

    Morgana Dispossessed

    Not really a hot topic, just a friendly reminder that we are in BETA and what our roles as players in this stage of development truly is. Sometimes players get so over-heated that they loose site of that, and that, is usually the case only because we are so truly passionate to see this become the best game ever!

    While this may not be a "support ticket" issue, overall gameplay issues ARE welcome as Support & Feedback. They are just as interested in getting our views on overall gameplay, balance, etc. as they are specific issues.

    ^^ So True! It was their "Oh Look! This weeks' Meta Easy Win Button!"
     
  19. UntamedZer0

    UntamedZer0 Well-Known Member

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    I think a lot of the emo rage came from all the peeps who bought Heavy Metal's thinking they would be pop tarting till the cows came home and had great dreams of being the top pop when CW came out. This should teach them not to buy mechs based on meta right now is the ultimate lesson to be learned. Perhaps after official release the community could complain when things are nailed down.

    Now, to give everyone an outlet, I plan on emo raging till LAMs come back into the fray.

    Phoenix Hawk LAM GRRRRRRAAAAAAAWWWWWRRRRRRR FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU PGIWTFZOMGBBQWTF is there not a LAM! This game is so LAMe I quit! gah! Idgits all! LAMs PWN! Head shot fro 30,000 feet an escape velocity back to orbit bitches! I pitty da foos! Rage!
     
  20. Soy

    Soy Min-Max Maniac

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    Lulz untamed!

    All I want to know is, has Cattra Kell even seen this? He's only other actual real world person in the video. Maybe he didn't like the spoof? :(
     

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