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What is the KGC really replacing?

Discussion in 'King Crab' started by skribs, Dec 10, 2014.

  1. skribs

    skribs Legendary Member

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    I've heard/read that the King Crab is replacing Dire Wolves and/or Atlai as the dominant 100 ton mech. But it doesn't have quite the survivability of either of those, IMO, due to hit box placement. I don't think there's anything tankier than an Atlas (except maybe CN9-A or a light with wonky hitboxes), and the KGC isn't capable of some of the machine gun builds of the dire wolf.

    It kind of looks like the KGC is replacing Jagermechs and Centurions as IS dakka machines. It surpasses the abilities of a Jagermech with 2xAC20 and can do better weapons combos than a CTF-4X.

    However, I think its really replacing the lower assaults with high hardpoint loading; particularly the stalker. It is very difficult with the KGC to make a build that utilizes all hardpoints with a high amount of firepower, just like a Stalker. It is much less a tank and much more a fire support mech, much like a stalker. It doesn't have quite the placement of the stalker, but it can use more firepower.

    Overall, I think there are enough playstyles in this that it can replace many other big mechs in role and function.
     
  2. Sassafras

    Sassafras MechSpecs Addict

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    For me, it looks like it is replacing the Banshee 3E as the dominant IS Assault Ballistic mech, though you could probably make the same argument about free tonnage vs higher hardpoints that you would when comparing the Jagers vs the Phracts.
     
  3. Solahma

    Solahma Space Pimp

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    WHALES :wacky:

    Seriously though, my thoughts of similar mechs:
    Banshee - Still has better hardpoint location for ballistics. Replaced in terms of ballistic firepower though, but both have their advantage situations.
    Atlas - Probably closer to being replaced. DDC can still mount ECM, impossible for the KGC to replace that. Better brawling hardpoints. Only replaced at med-far range imo.
    Stalker - Honestly the closest thing to a replacement for the stalker. Similar torso hitboxes. Both have high mounted energy. Both can boat missiles. However only the KGC can boat ballistics. Stalkers will still have better Large Laser builds and missile builds due to the quirks, but that's about it.
    Dire Wolf - Definitely the IS near equivalent of the DWF. You can choose to be faster than a DWF. However, a similar fire power with the KGC will be just as slow as the DWF (if not slower). DWF still has the DPS advantage and the clan XL advantage. DWF can effectively run 2Gauss 2ERPPC, the KGC cannot. I think they will have similar presence on the battlefield, but I don't think one replaces the other.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2014
  4. skribs

    skribs Legendary Member

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    Why can't the KGC run the 2x Gauss 2x PPC build?
     
  5. Solahma

    Solahma Space Pimp

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    2x PPC =/= 2x ERPPC
    Even a 2x PPC build would require either an XL engine (already worse than the DWF) to be as heat efficient. A STD engine will be just as slow as the DWF, and still with far less DHS. Not to mention the 100 less m/s than the DWF, so your PPC shots are harder to hit with at range, have a minimum range, and do not sync well with Gauss Rifles. It's just nowhere near as good, might as well capitalize on a STD engine and run a single ERPPC, or forget that type of setup all together because the DWF runs it better.
     
  6. Cyril Ray

    Cyril Ray Active Member

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    Because it's boring it's pilots to death when they try to use that meta bs :rofl: but seriously is this true? I haven't taken a good look at the crabs yet.
     
  7. enileph

    enileph Space Pimp

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    It can and it runs well.
    However for 2xGauss+2xERPPC it does get hotter than Direwhale. Plus the Gauss is more spread out, and you cannot shield with one side of your body (you lose the gauss, and you go kaboom if you go XL)
     
    skribs likes this.
  8. Blagg Zear

    Blagg Zear Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't think either, and from the first impression it is not. The Atlas definitely lose both Arms and both Sidetorsos pretty often before going down. The King Crab dies faster from CT Destruction. And how can it replace the Atlas if it can't bring ECM?

    The Dire Wolf is a Clan Mech, so can lose Sidetorsos without dying directly. That means it can pack a lot more Firepower, e.g. multiple UAC5/10s.

    Imo it's not a Replacement for the existing 100tonners, but a very good Addition! Coz it is unique with all the Arms-Ballistic HPs in its Weight Class. Nothing comes close to it's HPs-Mix. And that's awesome! Only thing that hinders it from being OP is the f***ing Ghost Heat, the sluggish Speed and the big CT-Hitbox.

    With the difference that it is from a totally another Weight Class. So you can't say it replaces them, but it is capable for loading the same Weaponloadouts (and more). ;)
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2014
    enileph likes this.
  9. cs_kami

    cs_kami Benefactor

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    I'm not happy with where people are placing the builds right now now. :cry: Why is a dual AC-20 KGC in the -000 subforum? :banghead: It can be done on the -0000 while other builds can be done in the -000, like six AC2s. A Quad AC5 can be done in the -000b, but its also placed in the -000 subforum. Arg. yes yes, it can be done by both, really, but the highlight of the -000 is six ballistic hard points, please use that!!! :thumbsup::D

    /rant

    I would say it replaces no assault. You have the BJ in the medium, you have the Jagger in the heavy, and now you have the KGC in the assault line up. It would have been better if its arms were higher, but in my limited plays with it, it's arms are only a little bit lower than the cockpit, so it's not as bad as say the Cataphract-4X (ok if it replaces any mech, it replaces the Cataphract 4X)
     
    enileph likes this.
  10. The Verge

    The Verge Administrator Staff Member

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    QUIRKS
     
    Solahma likes this.
  11. Solahma

    Solahma Space Pimp

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    AC20 specific quirks at that.
     
  12. Sassafras

    Sassafras MechSpecs Addict

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    Also, they're in the -000 forum is because that's what people have and are currently running.
     
  13. skribs

    skribs Legendary Member

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    I've wondered if there should be a section on mechspecs for "this could be done on any variant" or multiple variants in a chassis. For example, a single ballistic and 2 large lasers on a dragon, 2 ballistics and 2 large lasers on this...
     
  14. Michael

    Michael Grand Poobah Staff Member

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    If I made a sub-forum for every time someone came up with a brilliant idea it would take 30 minutes to scroll to the bottom. Those that know, know and those that don't have any idea won't miss that info anyway.
     
    Solahma and The Verge like this.
  15. skribs

    skribs Legendary Member

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    Oh Michael, there's another one! A subforum for new ideas about subforums!

    In all seriousness, I don't think it would increase scroll times for any of the ways I use the site. From my desktop it would just add another column or row to the small subforum buttons, and on mobile I don't even see subforums until I click on the forum its a sub of.

    Kami, I think its hard to use the hardpoints on this. Most of my builds I've looked at either use no missiles or are built around them.
     
  16. cs_kami

    cs_kami Benefactor

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    Quirks... right, forgot about those... derp..sorry :banghead:
    Still odd i guess to have the AC20 quirk on this variant, where you're wasting the other 4 ballistic slots. Well, curious to see some builds, and i think the quirks might be revised once some good builds come out of these variants.
     
  17. Remarius

    Remarius Space Pimp

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    Not even trying to use all the hardpoints - the strength of the King Crabs is the insane torso movement and the flexible hardpoints. I don't try to emulate the DWF or AS7. It has pin point ballistic damage the DWF and AS7 dream of. What it doesn't have is clan double heat sinks, easy mode engines or half weight launchers. So they have a lot less capacity to vent off heat but hit really hard.
     

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