There has been many changes to LRM's and additions to AMS, a long time ago there was a dev post stating that a single AMS could kill 6-7 missiles in a single volley as they entered his AMS 90 metres active range. Well, that is no longer true. We tested with a 1 to 3 AMS (with and without modules) vs LRM5, LRM10, LRM15 and LRM20 using TAG and Artemis. Actual number of missiles that hit is impossible to count accurately without backdoor access so these are estimates based on visual appearances. 00:00 Single AMS without modules kills 3-4 missiles. 00:42 Dual AMS without modules kills 6-7 missiles. We noticed at sub 300 that AMS doesn't have time to activate properly. 02:39 Single AMS with modules kills 4-5 missiles. 03:29 Dual AMS with modules kills 8-9 missiles 04:43 Tripple AMS with modules kills 12-14 missiles. Further testing: The effect of grouping multiple AMS equipped mechs were not tested here, I might do that at some other point. I might do a clan LRM version also but to be honest, we know it's going to be more effective as they stream in and don't come in a single volley. A post worth repeating with some data:
yep. worthless to bring it unless you deathball and everyone else has it, too. Of course, some mechs you run out of space so you can sacrifice the 1.5 tons for it to make yourself feel better. Interesting about the sub-300 firing. That doesn't seem quite right because it definitely shoots down streaks under 300. Edit: Ah, it looks like it took out 4 missiles at the start under 300, but then took out 5 when you moved further back, is that what you mean about it taking time to activate? Almost like a gatling gun has to pick up rotational speed before full output?
I wouldn't call it worthless, even if it's only killing 3-4 missiles per salvo, that's a decent amount of damage over the course of a game that's not hitting you. It's always a good idea to consider putting into your heavy and assault builds, to take some of the sting out of being out in the open. For lights and mediums, you can probably find cover before taking too much damage, and you would make AMS less of a priority.
Yeah, I was a bit surprised actually at how few missiles it did pick off. I had the idea and impression it was far more, at least the original 6-7 missiles and possible more. So I will certainly test Clan LRM's and get an accurate idea of it's importance. Picking off 4-5 missiles with modules per volley is damage saved but it's way less then I originally thought, is 1 AMS worth it? With Radar Dep, I would say no in general but there is always exceptions of course. 1 AMS should nullify 1 LRM5 volley, IMHO. At 1:30ish we close to 255m and fire, it looks like the AMS isn't able to pick off more then 1-2 missiles rather then the expected 4.
I personally feel that one AMS should take out 4/5 missiles in a LRM5. For 2 AMS, it should take out 8/10 in a LRM10 volley. And for 3 AMS, well, 12/15 Missiles from an LRM15. And that's at any range. It makes sense to me, as you lose 1 missile per AMS you have. But, you increase the size of the LRM volley needed to do damage to your mech.
http://mwo.gamepedia.com/Anti_Missile_System 3 missiles per volley per AMS, for LRMs, assuming you're standing still, without module, and IS LRMs. Clan LRMs probably allow 4 to be destroyed. The 10% fire rate module should allow 4 to be destroyed from an IS volley by a single AMS. If the AMS didn't have an internal 0.5s delay between switching targets, it could destroy 5 without the module, and 6 with. "The AMS system updates (get new missiles list) every 0.5s so that also have an effect on how many are shot down." That probably also accounts for the variability: if the missiles enter range just after the AMS has updated they'll get closer before the AMS starts firing, by up to 60 meters.
Interesting data, I wonder if they backend that stuff because it's certainly not appeared on any dev post I've read. It sounds accurate from what I've seen.
TBH, few (if any) mechs in my garage even bother to carry an AMS these days. I tend to try and use a combination of ECM mechs (HBR and 3L are some of my favorites to pilot anyway) and Radar Derp to negate the usefulness of LRMs regardless, and adding AMS has never seemed like the best investment on top of that. I do realize that AMS works as a team shield, of course, but what it also comes down to is this: Time To Kill has become a huge part of this game. We have mechs on the field that can tear apart the heaviest armored machines in a matter of seconds, and can one-shot a smaller mech with ease. I've seen far more matches come down to a matter of firepower than I've seen come down to defensive additions. For almost every mech I run, I've found more value in the long run from stripping an AMS and ammo, and adding in more weaponry instead, since doing so makes my TTK lower in every match, which means I can do more good for my team. It's allowed me to make mechs that consistently get anywhere from 1-5 kills per game, meaning that I'm at least taking a good number of them with me, and doing my part. If you look through my builds, that's why you'll notice that they don't use that hardpoint very often. I have a couple builds based on other people's posts, but I'd be surprised if a single one of my creations here uses AMS at all. I guess I subscribe to the point of view that the best defense is a good offense...and Sun Tzu agreed "Invincibility lies in the defense; the possibility of victory in the attack."
Hasn't it always been a truism that AMS is better in the group queue as then you share its burden and heavily increase its effectiveness? We used to drop in four mans where everyone had AMS and/or ECM and that was effective. We always felt one single AMS on its own just lessened incoming damage a bit. I currently don't use AMS on many of my solo queue mechs but for the group queue..... I have several dedicated dual AMS boats like Jesters, Summoners, a Kit Fox and a Firestarter. Those are tricked out with modules which extend their engagement range (occasionally fire rate as well) - coincidentally all are single weapon boats like the quad LL Jester where I lose nothing by only having two offensive weapon modules but they still have a strong offensive role of some sort. The role they take is always with the deathball, e.g. the Kitfox I place between the LRM boats and the target to extend the range over which the LRM's are intercepted. You can literally watch the stream of fire mostly disappear vs clan LRM's. That anecdotal evidence has always been backed up by very gratifying comments from the LRM targets as the triple AMS Kitfox doesn't have much else going for it in that role! Problem is against a 50-60 single volley IS LRM boat it doesn't do much and that's AMS's main problem currently imo as the IS AMS ammo increase really helped them against Clan LRM's. I have a handful of mechs with a single AMS on but as Durandal mentioned that's more for when it fills a hole though I have a couple of mediums where its turned out to be quite effective on. Coincidentally an example of where I use AMS (modules are Radar, LL cooldown/range, AMS range): Edit: Forgot to say - most clan mechs have to sacrifice their offensive hardpoints to use the omnipods with the AMS which hurts them a lot.
The dev post with the data is linked from the article. I also linked it in the quotation. Note that the dev gets his own math wrong, when he calculates that an AMS can shoot down 6 LRMs it's actually only 3 due to the targeting delay mentioned. I wonder if PGI is aware of this. Changing it would certainly be a big nerf to LRMs.
http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/100089-breakdown/ That's two years old and was actually the post I was thinking of in the OP first sentence. Hmm, interesting. They should revisit this and also think of the LRM speed, the difference between IS and Clan LRM's aswell.
Yep. Though given your results, it seems AMS mechanics haven't actually changed in 2 years, save for the addition of the module.
I would agree with this as well. As mentioned above, it has been a truism that in solo drops it isn't nearly as effective (in individual increments) so save that for ammo/other stuff. In team play you can create umbrellas and when you death blob you can roll with multiples; making you almost impervious to LURMAgeddon attacks.
Hail, For Community Warfare twelves we include two Kitfox with triple Anti Missile / ECM using both boost addon modules with 5000-8000 rounds. Combined with Hellbringers and DERP module it works well and yes I have gone through all 8000 rounds. We had to do this to counter a couple of big beat downs we took to heavy missile teams. Seyla,
