Heavy Metal "Long Range" (1x Gauss, 1x LRM15+A, 2x PPC, TAG, XL300)

This is the only way I play my Heavy Metal. Used to run 3xLLasers but this works so much better. You can poptart and LRM all day (Given you dont run out of ammo XD), and I consistently get 500+ damage, sometimes 900+. The regular PPCs are much more heat efficient than ERs and still work great IMO.



New and improved version (See posts below):



ER PPCs would be too hot on this IMO. Especially with the 2xLRM10s.

 

I run this. I feel 4 JJ is a bit overkill, so i threw in a bigger engine at the expense of 2 JJ

I am currently debating if i even need the artemis, and just slaping another ton of Lrm ammo in it, as i seem to use it up nearly every match.

 

My own build is very close to this

My thinking on the changes is pretty much as follows

ER verses normal PPC: If I'm looking to fight at range I want all of my weapons to have a similar envelope the standard PPC’s range is just a tad short for my tastes when teamed with LRMs and a Gauss. With the ER version every weapon I’ve got is doing max damage over pretty much my entire engagement envelope, the lack of a min range also helps. The variants posted here are HIGHLY vulnerable to a face hugging as at point blank the only thing on those mechs that would be doing good damage is the gauss rifle. The extra heat is still manageable and since it’s mostly a sniper pulling back after several bursts to cool isn’t normally a huge deal, and if you don’t use the missiles you can fire the PPCs for a rather extended period.

LRM 20 vs 15:
Throw weight matters when trying to penetrate AMS and since the upgrade is possible while retaining a viable ammo load and cooling situation I went for it. In fact if you just swap normal PPCs in for the ER in this build it runs cooler then the previously posted versions, retains the extra tubes, and betters their ammo loads. With the only drawback being a marginal 5 to 10 kph reduction in speed.

Engine Choice:
As an assault mech I don’t consider speed super important, the XL275 provides adequate speed to keep formation with other assaults, and because I’ve got speed tweak it’s already running as fast as a stock 300 anyway. I don’t see the extra 5 kps as being worth the extra weight here and the extra internal sink is mostly a wash as well. I have an XL300 engine off a Jenner I’ve toyed with, but I found I preferred the stock 275.

AMS:
I frankly wouldn’t build a mech without this in the current game LRMs are everywhere and I’m engaged by them EVERY game without fail. The AMS is always putting in work and is utterly worth that 1.5 tons to have on board. I have to say I find it’s omission extremely glaring from both of the other versions posted here.

TAG and or BAPS:
This is important if a mechs main DPS is in his missile tubes, but the LRM here is a secondary weapon mostly chosen for its range synergy if the direct fire assets. Unlike an LRM boat it’s not like having someone bubble you with ECM is going to render you impotent. Twin PPCs and a gauss rifle cannot be ignored or jammed. I rarely have issues finding targets to engage with the LRMs anyway since I tend to target heavier units without onboard ECM. The PPC themselves will also knock out ECM for several seconds on a hit which can allow you to put missiles onto medium range LOS targets even if they have it equipped. (If this is the plan chain fire them a few seconds apart to keep up the effect)

Artemis:
Not worth it, ammo loads here are pretty marginal already and with the direct firepower it can lay down when in LOS the slightly faster lock and grouping is hardly critical during a direct engagement. If anything a bit of scatter is nice to find sections blown out by your guns and possible critical them, and of course if you’re firing indirect it’s completely worthless.

Lack of JJs:
I personally think having the bare minimum jump is worth the two tons. It can be useful for hopping over a low obstruction when maneuvering, moving around a bit in a fight, or occasionally reaching higher positions with a series of jumps (Looking at you canyon). Having more then that is not IMO, and having FOUR is bordering on lunacy. I've really not found much I could do with two that I can't do with one, and anymore then that is just totally not worth it IMO so it has the single JJ merely to gain that utility for the bare minimum cost.

Standard vs. Endo:
I find the Highlander and heavy Assaults in general tends to be more space than tonnage limited when running an XL engine. This version has only six slots open when finished the only thing that could really go would be three heat sinks, this would free up 7.5 tons total… which would be rather useless with only 1 critical slot left. It would also make the already slightly less efficient design run even hotter.

Armor:
I have no idea why you guys are running full armor; it’s a complete waste of time. I run less than 40 leg armor and have never once lost a leg in combat. I also normally run 10 head armor (enough to protect from one stray PPC shot) and have also never died to a headshot. This frees up fully two tons of weight for functionally zero loss in protection. I would suspect you’re using it as a weight sink since you’re out of slots due to endo steel.

 

My issues with the build of TK are the 9 armor in the head (shudder).


I have adjusted that a bit, added some much needed leg armor, moved some ammo around ( dont keep ammo in the CT as it can explode and you are done). Gauss ammo cannot explode though, so you can put it where you want.


The point in having a higher rated engine is also turn speed, which is always good to have. the XL 325 got what you need. In total you get around 10 kph, a lot more agility, and armor at the right places at the loss of 1 heat sink.





To the OP: I love PPC / Gauss Highlanders myself.

 

My problem with the variant above is rather simple: COST.

Between the Endo-steel and the XL 325 engine it costs more then six million C-bills more then mine. For the added cost of an entire heavy mech you're granted slightly worse heat efficiency and a roughly 10 kps speed increase... Call me stingy, but I don’t fancy that as a good return on investment. The nice part about my version is that nothing on it beside weapons is non-stock it uses the stock engine, Heavy Metal has DHS by default, no Artemis is fitted. The LRM launcher and gauss rifle are both stock as well.

Thus the sole expenses are:
1 AMS+Ammo: 202k
2 ERPPC: 1.2 mil
1 DHS: 12k

ERPPCs are the main cost, but they're super good and you'll want several of them around anyway. Plus they're can be easily swapped between mechs unlike the sunk cost of endo. I also personally dispute that an engine upgrade produces any tactically significant increase in agility. I've run my normal Highlanders stock with 270 standards and have noticed no readily apparent handling difference from my tests with other versions running the aforementioned XL 300. If the effect isn't entirely placebo it's so small as to be dwarfed by the inherent unaglity of a 90 ton mech.

Besides all the Heavy Metals direct fire weapons are arm mounted meaning they're capable of firing well off torso bore sight reducing the importance of any supposed agility advantage still further. Overall I just do not see the extremely marginal increase in performance as worth anything like 6 million C-bills which would be like 80% of another Highlander if you're looking to Elite the class or as noted an entire Heavy mech if you want to branch out.

As for some other comments regarding armor I'm well over 100 games now in Highlanders armored like this and have never died to a headshot. It's something I learned in MW4 long ago that still holds: people just can't effectively target the head (the fact it's in a totally different place on every mech only compounds the tiny target area problem). Any hit is going to be a stray shot aimed at the torso. In truth you could probably run zero armor and be fine, but I keep ten as a bit of insurance. 10 armor provides enough to protect against a laser swept over it or as noted a stray PPC hit.

As for legs the simple fact is people do not target legs on assault mechs and missiles don't really hit them either. Once again in well over 100 games now I have yet to loose a leg in combat. The torso is just an easier shot and you're not agile enough to make legging worth it in turns of gimping them in most peoples view. Frankly if I'm brawling and the other guy started shooting my legs instead of my torso I'd be overjoyed, but then again maybe I ought to encourage you guys to keep taking tons of leg armor to make sure people continue not to bother.

As for ammo in the central torso my opinion is that if your eating internal hits into the CT the ammo their barely matters. In fact if I was running a standard engine and didn't want to waste tonnage on CASE I'd stick some ammo in the CT over the sides. To me worrying about an ammo blow out in the CT is sort of like worrying about about a heart attack when you're bleeding to death from a bullet wound. That said putting the gauss ammo there is obvious, which I in fact did in game, but I was building the online version from memory and didn't recall that detail.

 

Simpler argument: never put xl in an assault. Ever.


Period.

 

@vergere
Tbh i know nothing about the victor, but no xl is good for atlas/stalker/ highlander, and id suspect the awesome
but as a general rule its good. The xl gives your opponents side torso kills significantly reducing your lifespan on the battlefield

 

@Vergere: Love it. Absolutely right.


Here is my adjusted build (in game it doesn't say 89.9 tons XD)


Now as to what others were saying (mostly TK):

PPCs:
I never have a problem with the range on PPCs. I usually keep my enemies at around 500m, and producing less heat means I can fire more and kill them before they get to me. On the rare occasion that people get close its usually not inside 90m and if it is, it might only be 50m, which still gives me 5 damage from each ppc. ERPPCs IMO produce too much heat for me in this build. When deciding between PPC types id refer you to Vergere's statement of, to each his own.

LRMs:
Not sure why you would want an LRM20 in a mech with 16 tubes. If your argument is to overpower AMS than that doesn't make sense considering 4 missiles will arrive late and will probably get destroyed by AMS. Seems like excess to me. I've never considered my LRMs to be "secondary". All my weapons are there to do as much damage as they can. The LRMs do plenty of damage LOS. The LRMs are also great for getting damage in when I don't have LOS but a friendly does.

Engine/Endo:
XL engines in a long range highlander are fine, and are almost a necessity in victors. The XL300 is for the extra heat sink. I see your point about the speed difference being negligible, but a smaller engine still seems unnecessary. You're dropping engine size to get more tons that you achieve by using endo, and then using up the slots you're not using with endo to add heat sinks that could be in your engine, and you still end up having slots left over. The 300+endo feels like a perfect balance for me.

AMS:
Good point. I added one.

TAG/ammo:
The TAG is extremely useful to me. With LOS it allows for faster locks and more importantly it cuts through ECM. Also you can get the TAG/NARC Bonus for XP and CBills, WIN! If you really think its useless then drop it for more ammo. However I've never had problems with ammo shortages. Also never put ammo that can explode in your center torso. That's asking for an early death. I see you said you put the Gauss ammo in the center instead so good job.

Artemis:
Artemis = More damage to the central body of the mech as it is more focused. Also given that I don't have an LRM20 that extra focusing of the missiles makes up for the damage lost by having 5 less missiles IMO. Again if you don't like it, drop it for more ammo.

Jump Jets:
How you can handle 1 jump jet in this fat mech I don't understand. Can you even get up the canyon wall? However I agree that 4 was too much. I dropped down to 3 and added my AMS.

Armor:
Always need more armor. The end.

Legs:
People do shoot them. If you jump jet they also get hit by accident. If people notice they are low they will destroy them. Fact.

Cost:
If you play as much as me then cost isn't an issue. If it is an issue then try swapping engines around to mechs that use the same engine.



TK if I was to take your suggestions with engine size and endo then I would change your build to this. It achieves a bit more heat efficiency than my build at the expense of armor and speed, but makes ER PPCs slightly more viable. I still prefer my own build of course but I think this is an improvement to your build. You'll probably disagree. XD

Option 1 TK Tweak:


Option 2 TK Tweak:

 

Ah I see. Thanks Vergere. You're always clearing things up for me.

Well then. Considering that their are indeed 20 tubes, I can see why you did it TK. Makes more sense now. As for my build I would have to sacrifice something in order to equip one. I may toy around with the idea of an LRM20, but I am still content with my LRM15 for the moment.

Could someone clarify what TK meant by "if you're firing in-direct of course they're completely worthless."? Does the Artemis system not work if you're firing from someone else's lock?


Edit: Ok after lots and lots of missile testing I discovered that by using 2xLRM10s, not only do you save 1 slot for using the same tonnage as a LRM20, but the missile grouping is tighter than a standard LRM20, comparable to the missile grouping of the LRM20+Artemis. And yup, there's enough tubes on the secondary missile slot for a LRM10. XD
PS: After lots of testing in the training grounds I discovered the following as well for those that are interested:

LRM15: 5 volleys to kill cicada at 500m facing the front of the mech.
LRM20: 4 volleys to kill cicada at 500m facing the front of the mech.

LRM15+Artemis: 5 volleys to kill cicada at 500m facing the front of the mech.
LRM20+Artemis: 4 volleys to kill cicada at 500m facing the front of the mech.


So now I can unequip artemis and save enough space for more ammo and stuff while also achieving more damage from my LRMs than my original LRM15. I'll be updating my original post with the updated version of my original build.

Note: 2xLRM10s recycle faster than the LRM20. However 2xLRM10s also produce more heat than a single LRM20. Keep this in mind

 

Was gone pretty much all of late July and the first week of August (yeah Vacation), then busy once I got back (boo backlog after vacation), and the thread seems to have mostly wrapped up aside from some minor details that are mostly preference, but I'm just going to respond to a few bits that were aimed at me and not directly addressed. I've gotten kinda bored with the game anyway, so not sure I'll even continue playing, but whatever.


@Vergere: Love it. Absolutely right.[size=1em]
Now as to what others were saying (mostly TK):

*shrugs* I often find chances to take shots at 600-800 meters in games which PPCs just would not allow. The min range issue isn't huge I'll admit, but an on the ball light mech that realized the ONLY thing you had that could do damage point blank was the Gauss could really ruin your day with some face hugging. That said with the nerf to ERPPC heat I'm seriously considering a switch to standard PPCs. The ERs were already a tad marginal, and with the slight increase I feel they might have crossed a threshold. I intend to experiment with it a bit in the next few days and see, but still that doesn't change much else.

The 300 XL with endo version has inferior heat dissipation because the endo eats all the slots for extra heat sinks, and also nearly forces the use of twin LRM10s do to lack of slots. So you float several more free tons yes, but with little space to really use it. Your design pretty much fills it with what I'd call "junk" one extra jump jet and fairly useless up armoring of the legs being the main things. Only the added TAG is really a legit useful addition IMO, but the XL 275 version could have that too if you dropped one sink.

That change results in a mech that still has a slightly higher heat dissipation, slightly lower top speed, and exact same weapon configuration. Dropping the TAG as I do, not really a fan honestly, meanwhile results in a notable heat dissipation advantage for the 275 version. The 300 version has no possible way to improve heat dissipation without starting to slash weapons due to endo eating all it's slots. Just having a mech be "full" isn't some mark of optimization, it can easily just be bloat.

In the end it really just a 4.5 kph speed increase with the XL300 version maybe for you six million c-bills is worth that, but it ain't for me.

I tend to find the lock so quick in LOS that tag is pretty much unneeded for that. It's also find it annoying myself because it must be constantly painted, but both the PPC and Gauss often require a slight lead on the target to hit properly so for me I find it to actively conflict with aiming in my experience. This is why I don't run it on my primarily direct fire mechs much.

I would only really mount it for the ECM burn through, but I found it so problematic to use for that in conjunction with effective employment of my direct fire guns that I eventually just went "F it, I'd rather just be able to shot a bit more" and tossed it for another heatsink. This is a preference call I'll admit though, and maybe you can employ it effectively. I just found it a highly marginal and situational distraction myself.

Cause I pretty much use it solely for minor utility like getting over bugged terrain or step climbing hills. Thing is the way the game works the mech can stand and walk sideways on stuff it can't really climb. So if you abuse that you can pretty easily stutter jump up the side of most stuff that's not like a sheer cliff. Canyon itself also has lots of areas with a slightly flat bit just up the walls you can stand on and then boost up the rest of the way.

It can also sometimes throw a guy off a little to hop now and again in a fight although it tends to ruin your aim too. Really I don't find the Highlander maneuverable enough on it's feet to make jump jets that great, so I view them mostly as a "jump" like in another FPS something you use for utility or getting over small obstacles only really.

Not really, there is a reason the back end of an Abrams has like not even a fraction the thickness of the front for instance. More armor where you're actually being HIT is good, more just because is called wasted weight.

*Shrugs*

But I've made my case about this if you're bound and determined to waste literally tons of weight on stuff that's still going to be snugly fitted fitted to your CT holed corpse at the end of the every match I suppose I can't stop you. I'll enjoy my free tons and total lack of capability comprise.

[size=1em]I've never had anyone start a fight by shooting at my legs, ever. I know I sure as hell don't! Anything that goes into them is normally badly missed shots, often coming from below as the person tries to aim up at the torso, or sometimes if you decide to jump during a fight. Either way it's rare, people don't focus them, and it's not like the legs are unarmored or something they still need 3+ PPC/2+ Gauss hits to strip and then more to blow the internals, they have more armor the CT of most light mechs.[/quote]

They aren't just going to get smacked off by accident, someone has to TRY and focus them down and doing that when staring down a 90 ton assault mech is just a bad, bad idea. Hence why no one really bothers to try.

I think cost is always a factor, at least when it's not getting you anything useful. As noted above the Endo and XL300 config pretty much amounts to a mech that's 4.5 kph faster with slightly worse heat management that's what six mil buys you, and too me that ain't worth the effort now matter how much you play compared to say blowing that on modules or another mech instead.