Thoughts on the Cataphract

I know it is a tad early, as it hasn't been released yet, but I figured I'd start a topic for the Cataphract here.
I'd like to gather a better understanding of the roles this 'mech can fulfill and what playstyles would compliment it's loadout options. So far it seems relativly Energy heavy, with a soft mix of Ballistic and Missile options. 3D is the only model to come with JumpJets, and may also have an XL engine. While the 4X seems to have a smaller engine to make room for more weaponry.

I've considered playing my first Cataphract as a Direct-Fire Support with some brawling capability. Thoughts?




Here's what I've gathered so far:

CTF-3D runs at least 6 hardpoints: 2 Ballistic and 4 Energy
(1b/1e RA, 1b/1e RT, 1e LT, 1e LA)
The weapons loadout for this default 'mech would weigh in at 24t before ammo, and approx 26t after at minimum.

CTF-1X runs at least 6 hardpoints: 1 Ballistic and 5 Energy
(2e RA, 1b/1e RT, 1e LT, 1e LA)
The weapons loadout for this default 'mech would weigh in at 23t before ammo, and approx 24t after at minimum.

CTF-2X runs at least 5 hardpoints: 1 Ballistic, 3 Energy and 1 Missile
(1e RA, 1b/1e RT, 1e LT, 1m LA)
The weapons loadout for this default 'mech would weigh in at 21t before ammo, and approx 23t after at minimum.

CTF-4X runs at least 4 hardpoints: 2 Ballistic, 1 Energy and 1 Missile
(1b RA, 1m RT, 1e CT, 1b LA)
The weapons loadout for this default 'mech would weigh in at 23t before ammo, and approx 25/26t after at minimum.

With the provided information I've put together here, I had interest in theory-crafting some builds.

 

Nice find

 

Less a find and more an observation. By looking at the Loadouts offered by the wiki and comparing them to the visuals that were released on the official site, I was able to determine where the hardpoints were by simply observing where they weapons appeared to be in the images.

I had also read on forums that the 3D had an XL engine, I'm not 100% on this, but due to it's weight of weaponry it makes sense, seeing as the 4X with a similar weighted loadout moves slower it would have required a weaker and lighter engine.


To me, the 4X is not ideal, as it is just above Assault movement speed and would likely manage to get outflanked by faster 'mechs. As for the 3D, though using JumpJets, would also not be ideal for brawling as the XL engine would create a strong weakness. The 3D could still be used for Direct-Fire Support, but I'd be too afraid to pit it into close combat due to the XL.


For my personal interests, it seems that the 2X is most ideal for me.
1 Ballistic hardpoint to allow for a variety of situational weapons, most notably would be the LB X-10 AC.
The Missile Hardpoint could be used for LRM5 or LRM10 to provide some Indirect Support of allies, or simply softening up targets before they are under range of the LRMs. SRMs could be used for close combat and would work well with the LB X-10 to target scouts and other lighter 'mechs due to their "spray" manner of firing. SSRMs may not be as desirable, as only having 1 SSRM2 wouldn't provide very much dmg output versus an SRM6.
As for the 3 Energy hardpoints, those could be used for close combat with small/medium lasers, or even make way for a PPC is the tonnage allowed it. These hardpoints can be used to cover close or long range Direct-Fire.

So, my current choice is the CTF-2X, although, if I can afford to downgrade the XL that may be in the CTF-3D then I would go for it for the Jump Jets and extra ballistic hardpoint.

 

Would it be safe to assume that the stock engines would be:
XL 280 for the 3D, and STD 280 for 1X and 2X, and 215 for the 4X?

I'm making this assumption cause, Dragon (60T) running at 64.8km/h would use a 240 engine, Catapult (65T) running at 64.8km/h would use a 260 engine, so it makes sense that a Cataphract (70T) running at 64.8km/h (so says the wiki) would use a 280 engine.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I've crafted a few builds already.

1X - Caesar Replica; 280XL, CASE, 1 Gauss, 1 ERPPC, 4 MPL
3D - 2 Gauss, 4 ML or 2 AC/10's, 4 ML or 1 AC/20, 1 Gauss, 4 ML's
4X - Not sure what to do for this until its known what the actual hard points are

 

Honestly, I've no idea. I think you worked some nice maths there. I hadn't even considered what the standard engines would be, but that does make sense.

These are interesting. What do you think of running a 3D with dual LBX? Would make a good option for striking at light 'mechs who get to close, yea?

EDIT: It looks like, upon closer inspection, that the CTF-1X is most ideal for me. Swap the AC/10 for an LB X-10 (shaves a ton that can be used to add a case and an AMS). Swap the PPC for an ERPPC for the removal of minimum range, and possibly shave a medium laser or 2 for some AMS ammo and/or a Heatsink. Would have long range shot with the ERPPC and mid/close range with the LBX and MLasers.

 

Well since everyone says 4X will have 2 ballistic slots in each arm i'd go for 4 ac2 or 4 ac5 or 2 uac5 and 2 ac5 or a wild mix of them all i am really looking forward to especially that variant.. also first post \o/

I really like your caesar replica, since its one of my favorite BT mechs.. hope it works out heatwise..

 

EDIT::

I think the 2x may be pretty beneficial. To be able to run it as a brawler, scout harasser or even as long range support (Direct AND indirect) is all around a solid setup.

I fear that for DPS and suppression I'd likely aim for a Jagermech due to its 4 Ballistic hardpoints and design to already carry dual AC/2 and AC/5. However, the Cataphract seems to bring a solid mix of firepower. Ballistic and energy chaining can hel keep heat from getting out of hand, and missiles can support your dps in close with SRM/SSRM or out far with LRM.

 

If what you say is true, I MAY have to test my Jager build on the Cataphract Dual AC/2 and Dual AC/5 with some laser backup fire

 

Wiki says so.. source game data..

but only 1 energy slot in CT and 1 missile slot in head.. so i guess you have to rely on your ballistics

but with 35 tons space for weaponry or something around that i think you may be able to go for a large laser or a ssrm2

210 Std, Full Armor, DSH, Endo

4 AC2, Large Laser, SSRM2
2 AC5 / 2 AC2 / 1 Med Laser / SSRM
2 Gauss / Med Laser / SSRM
2 AC10 / 2 MG (maybe they will be useful after balance) / 1 LL / SSRM2

maybe even uac5 and ac5 in combination.. havent tested that yet with SSW..

http://mwowiki.org/wiki/index.php?title=Cataphract_CTF-4X

 

Missile in the head and an Energy in the center torso, to me, yells zombie build. Utilize your arms of course, but should you lose them then tear into them with your head/CT. If either one is destroyed you will die, but til then you can put up a fight til your last breath. It's a bit slow however, and an XL would just make it too expensive and weaker from a taking hits stand point.

Hrmm.

EDIT: Also, didn't realize they had updated the Wiki with info on each variant. I think the 4X may be ideal all except it's speed. However, I suppose it could be turned into a slow moving turret and still moves faster than most Assault classes.
The 2X lacks firepower in the CT/HD but that's okay. with 2 Missile spots you can drop in SSRM or SRM for some close punch and still hold energy/ballistic for range/close dmg.

I like 'em both, just wish they had those JJ, lol.

 

Well.. 3D then for you it has a bit of all

Also a very high price of 11 millions or so -.-

 

Though I like the JJ, they aren't mandatory, just a plus. I'm not willing to deal with the XL engine either. I think the 4X may be what I would enjoy. Essentially playing a mobile turret. If I could manage to figure out how to place 2 AC/2 and 2 AC/5 into the chassis w/o needing an XL engine (as it already has a lower sized engine), then I'd be happy. Though, at it's lower speed it cannot dodge missiles, so, it needs an AMS to help lessen the dmg it takes from LRM/SRM


2X has a nice setup with the missiles in the arm. It spreads the hardpoints out and I like that.
4X offers up Ballistic firepower in the arms with Torso based backup, making it a fighter til death.

Sadly, the 3D may offer a nice mix of Energy and Ballistic firepower, the jump jets aren't enough of a perk for me to justify putting an XL engine under my lacking pilot skills. Thus, 2X or 4X are the remaing options for me at this time. (once I get better, 3D could be a nice addition should I choose to master this chassis)

 

But dont forget 2X will propably only have 4 launch "tubes" or whatever we may call it.. so when you add a lrm 20 it will fire them in 5 salvos.. this may be annoying. (same for aws9m, it has only 2 tubes and when you put a lrm20 in it it fires endless salvos of 2 lrm each..)

Edit: yeah.. 10 is the new endless x_X

 

I wondered why my AWS-8R shot to salvos per shot form my LRM20, now I know. that's cool

 

Which is why it would be nice if they sped up modular designs so this stuff isn't exploited so much (like that atlas LRM tubes that don't change if you have 3 LRM's). Replacing a 4 tube SRM launcher with an LRM should show up on the model as a huge missile rack.

 

.. which would need weeks and weeks of developing on every single variant which could be put into the stalker, the jägermech and all the other stuff..

no thanks, i prefer lots of mechs over one that shows every equipment correctly

but we are getting very offtopic.. 13 hours till cataphract \o7

 

What time and in what zone do they do the patch? and when can I expect to log in and buy my Cata?

 

usually server down is at exactly 10 AM PST and they come up 2-3 hours later.. depending on patch size..

thats 18:00 GMT..

 

Fantastic, that means I can get in a bit of playtime before the patch, then have the rest of the afternoon/evening to play with a Cata.

Currently thinking I'm gonna get a 4X and try to mod it to feel similar to a Jagermech. Still not sure how I'll fit everything in though. It should be able to run 2 AC/2 and 2 AC/5 with at least one medium laser. This 'mech is 5 tons heavier than the Jager, so it would make sense the rest of the weight could be used for an AMS, extra ammo and a ton or so of armor.