Every slot on this mech is stuffed to the brim! Really need a lot of heat sinks to fire the dual AC2s but a base 8 damage per second is well worth it. It also come in addition with a heavy SRM pack, a pair of heavy lasers, and plenty of ammo for a central engagement. I figured to that taking half a ton of armor off for the AMS would be worth it. Weapon Groups 1) 2xAC2 (Long Range) 2) ER Large Laser + Medium Laser 3) SRMs 5) ER Large Laser Edit: A slight variation of the varient above, this version trades out the SRM6 for SRM4, one ton of SRM ammo, and a heat sink, to fill the last jump jet slots available. This is a third variant which guts some of its longer range potential in the ER Large Laser in favor of max jump jets, and stronger close in damage with higher efficiency.
Other than a few mods, this is a good build I've traded 1 ton of SRM for AC2, and put all the JJ in the CT for some better structure. I have a similar build, but I run much different weapons. I would say 4-5 stars for this build, as you don't technically use all the JJ.
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=72&l=e8c05d5c83c7c3fb730760bb7fc7efad3abaa3e3 If you just want max jump jets, then maybe this might be more to your tastes. Turn the 2 SRM6 to SRM4 and bump off a ton of AC2 ammo and a heat sink to get the remaining two jump jets.
again, I would trade one ton of SRM for AC2(I like a lot of dakka), but that build you have there would work Great! Just mod your OP to that build, and you have a 5 star build right there!
Eh, i dont agree. While you dont have horrible cooling efficiency, it could use a bit more for sure. Once all those SRMs and lasers go off once and both a/c 2s keeps rolling, you're never much going to get out of the high heat zone ever. So basically you have an alpha once and just dakka build until you cool down again. Are the a/c2s anywhere near that good to keep the others from firing over them? hell no. A/c2s are the only auto-cannon that actually under-perform. Ok, aside from that you dont have very good weapon synergy. Matching an a/c 2 and an ERLL is just silly. 2 completely different firing rates/projectile speed/distance. If you want some serious dakka output with a high firing rate, use the UAC5. Just dont hold the fire button down. learn the cooldown of your gun so it doesnt jam and they are the best a/cs in the game. Also, and this is preferential, but 4 JJ on anything aside from lights is just way overkill. 1 is minimum for faster turning, 2 is required if you actually wanna scale shit and other mechs and 3-4 is fun, but will be mostly unnoticeable as you learn the maps better and where/where not to JJ. Another thing. Why would a giant mech that ultimately is going to end up brawling using an XL engine? IMO here, thats just silly, suicidal, and needs to be changed. use Endo, not XL. Highlanders are not XL friendly mechs. The CT is massively armored but not the side torsos. In the end, you have no true main weapon that actually deals lot of damage except your SRM burst. But that requires a damn close range and the XL prohibits that. Something maybe like this. No more suicidal Xl engine. And now you have a main focus with your dakka at all ranges that does way more damage than a/c2s and with better heat. Also, when you get close, you have upgraded SRMs plus 2 mlasers instead of one for better heat and actual weapon synergy. The only thing with this is that i wanted about 200 UAC5 ammo due to 12v12 but maybe its enough for you. With this build you always have a weapon that can be firing, the old builds didnt. The a/cs 2 prohibited that. Ntm, this guy has a higher firepower, max dps, and sustained dps.
This mech is not a brawler, not with AC2's. I've already PM'd you about the performance of AC2's, and how your assessment is incorrect. The XL engine in this build is to keep all these weapons running at a good speed and cooling, with plenty of ammo. This build is not a brawler, but it has weapons to brawl with. I do agree that XL engines are dangerous, and 2 JJ is overkill, but with a sniper such as this, you really need to pop and lock to do great amounts of damage. If you get caught by an Atlas or a Raven, you need those extra JJ to out jump them to a better position, either behind more cover, or onto a building. (EX an atlas has major weapons in the torso's, they could only bring arm weapons to fight with, unless they back off.) Your build is so completely different, and it has been discussed before at length, and possibly should have been linked to that topic to show the OP how much better that build is. Also, the sniping ability of the ERLL is quite poor, as it shows your location as easy as a line to follow. It is more of a back up system IMHO, and could be useful if the arms are destroyed.
you're kidding right? using only 2 a/c2s as a sniper platform? with their super fucking slow projectile speed and damage? Between HSR and just general movement an a/c 2 would take forever to kill ANY thing from over 600 meters. How about when he runs out of ammo? is that ER enough to save him? doubt it. After that, the brawling is all he has. You said it your self the ER isnt a great sniper weapon. And the XL engine used to increase speed and cooling? my build has the same cooling and speed. On to the next issue: The build i showed was only an example of how to better group weapons and rely on actual dependable weaponry while still keeping the heat low and speed up without an XL. Really, the whole point is that the weapons dont group well and most importantly, A/c2s being the main sniper weapon (horrible idea) and also main gun in general without the proper weapons to back it up like ua/c5s or PPCs, will never dominate the field in anything. Not in range, velocity, damage, heat or any other category. And even then, the weapons I mentioned dont really pair well with the a/c 2 because nothing really does. The a/c2 is just a sub-par weapon right now. It fires so quick that it produces more heat than any of your other guns can handle aside from maybe machine guns. But for only 2 damage per shot, and assuming both shots actually hit where it was intended? Also, that video you showed me, that's one performance out of who knows how many for him to do well. He also had to MASS a/c2s on mech that was designed exactly to pull that particular combo off to get the performance he did. What you showed me is the equivalent of a baseball player playing baseball while the mech in this post is like an olympic diver playing football. It doesnt work. hell, at that point ill just put 2 a/c5s or a 10 and get somewhat close damage results without the massive heat and using less weight. In the end, You are using a highlander man. An assault mech. Why would you want to bring the smallest firepower ballistics onto one of the handful of mechs that can actually use multiple versions of the largest weapons with ease? You're cutting your own legs off man and denying the entire purpose of what that mech is supposed to be. Sacrificing massive ballistic damage, and also the main form of damage, just so we can put on an ERLL and keep it cool? And then HOPE that you dont get in close quarters with one of the slowest mechs in the game and stay alive through all the massive heat this thing creates? Seriously...sometimes you just gotta realize that a mech you thought would be good...just isnt. This highlander is not the mech you want to try and pull off the desired effects of this weaponry. I mean come on man...this guy cant even jump snipe. If he does hes gonna trade at least 1-2 PPCs/gauss to the chest or face just so he can hit for a measly 4 damage? are you fucking kidding me? what kind of trade off is that? Ntm the LRM flack hes gonna get for a second afterwards. Anyways, im done with the ranting. Fact of the matter is thus: A/c 2s are a supremely sub-par weapon unless perfectly designed around just like the machine guns.
I'll first start off by saying that the AC2 is in fact not the best sniper weapon. It relies on consistent shots from long distances, and it doesn't do its damage in large bursts like a PPC or a Gauss rifle. Sure it can reach 1500 meters and still do damage, but that relies on actually hitting the guy, which is still really hard for anything that wouldn't just sluff off the damage. That being said, the dual AC2 on this mech is not made for sniping. It is made for generating a large consistent DPS over a period of time. Lets look at the math for the other autocannons. Gauss Rifle: 15 tons, 15 damage a shot, 1 heat a shot, fires once every 4 seconds, has a overall DPS of 3.75. Ultra AC5: 9 tons, 5 damage a shot, 1 heat a shot, fires once every 1.10 seconds, has a overall DPS of 4.55 AC10: 12 tons, 10 damage a shot, 3 heat a shot, fires once every 2.5 seconds, has a overall DPS of 4.00 AC20: 14 tons, 20 damage a shot, 6 heat a shot, fires once every 4 seconds, has a overall DPS of 5.00 Gauss is a good sniper, Ultra AC5 is good if you have a macro set up or its lucky to not jam for 5 seconds. Now we look at the AC2 AC2: 6 tons, 2 damage a shot, 1 heat per shot, fires twice a second, has a overall DPS of 4.00 It weighs 6 tons! You can get two of them for the same tonnage as a AC10, You can get two and 225 shots for the same tonnage as the Gauss Rifle. It has better DPS per ton than any other autocannon in the game. Of course, the two Ultra AC5's have better DPS if perfectly timed. 2 AC2's have 8 DPS, 2 UAC5's have 9.10 DPS, so they do a better job. However, 2 UAC5s weigh 18 tons ignoring the ammo, while 2 AC2's weigh 12 tons. That is a 6 ton difference, and if my elementary math has not failed me, 5 is less than 6. So lets say we take this out to 720 meters, the max range where the AC2 does full damage. At 750m, the ER Large Laser loses one potential damage, doing 8 damage. Therefore it has a DPS somewhere above 1.88. We'll say 1.88 however because its nice to work with integers. So 2 AC2's + ER Large Laser= total DPS at 720 m. 4+4+1.88= 9.88 DPS 9.88 > 9.10 AC2+ER Large Laser > two UAC5s in terms of DPS. and this is assuming the UAC5s don't lose any damage on the way to target. My set up is one ton lighter, and it out ranges and out damages it in a prolonged fight. I even get three times the ammunition per ton compared to the UAC5, but what I don't get is the heat efficiency. So how do I deal with a heat inefficiency? Heat Sinks, 19 of the things, 12 of which are in the engine. That puts the heat threshold of the mech at 30+24+9.8=63.8 and the heat dissipation at 2.4+.98= 3.38 Heat per second! If I fire just the AC2's I generate 4 heat a second. 4-3.38= 0.62 Heat. So how many seconds can I fire before I shut down? 63.8/0.62= 103 seconds= 1 minute and 43 seconds. In that time, I will have fired 412 shots and dealt a maximum of 824 damage. I don't physically have the ammunition I would need to fire my mech till shut down. But wait, we are assuming I fire the ER Large Laser in conjunction here, which generates 2 Heat per second. So now we have 4+2-3.38=2.62 HPS How many seconds can this fire? 63.8/2.62= 24 seconds That is still a lot of time, and hopefully by then I can maneuver to someplace safe to cool off. The math for the UAC5s is simple enough, a threshold of 54 heat, a heat dissipation of 2.4. With just the cannons, you actually lose more heat than you generate so you can fire forever. So the AC2 can deal a lot of damage, but its such a waste. I'm having to pay for all these heat sinks, which mean I don't get endo steel, which means in terms of tonnage, your UAC5's should come out on top right? Well yes and no. You get the luxury of a standard engine, more tons from endo steel, so that swings the tonnage into your favor. However, heat sinks provide cooling to more than just the long range loadout. So the question then is which build is definitively the better? I honestly can't say. My build has longer range and better damage, but your mech can take more damage. I bid away some of my defense to strengthen my offense. That is the way it should be because this is a balanced game, where investing in one area means something else has to be sacrificed. It might not be the best build, but it is a strong build, and considering nobody has even tried AC2's on a Highlander on these forums, I'd say it came out alright. P.S: A AC2 ties with the ERPPC for having the quickest travel speed in the game at 2000m/s. Just so you know.
well im impressed you went through all that. Problem though...you are assuming everything is at optimum conditions and everything is lining up nicely. Have you considered the actual personal accuracy of your weapons? Or that this is a battlefield and things dont go as they are "supposed" to. For your math to actually be taken seriously you would need a 100% accuracy and actually live long enough plus use your entire amount of ammo to out damage the UAC/5. This doesnt even include how much of everything else you get to fire with the better heat. Also, your heat issues are created because your heat dissipation in based on heat removed per second. Since your weapons are firing much faster than that you will always generate more heat than you can dissipate with a/c2s. Hence the problem, but this is also assuming you are constantly firing, just like in your math. And thats if you are ONLY firing the a/c2s. Those lasers and the SRMs arent free. This is where the UAC will start to outshine the a/c2. less heat means more firing and more firing of the other weapons as well. Also, since you will never have a 100% accuracy and will have to stop shooting more often with the a/c2s, the UACs start to pull way away in dps terms due to actual accuracy-damage. Theres a very big reason the ilya chainsaw, probably the singular most popular build in the game, uses UACs and not a/c2s or even 5s. This perfect world your math is based in is just, sorry, but not actually relevant. It looks good but it doesnt actually play out like that. Heres the ultimate test. Use both builds in, say, 5+ games each and see which one out performs. Biggest factor in that test will be to see how good you are at not jamming the UACs. But also, a jammed UAC doesnt cause heat so it allows a little bit of recovery time. Basically your guy is just bursting the shit out of someone with damage hoping they die first, but what if they dont, and what if hes not alone? Heat starts to get more important here and your idea of constant fire just went out the window. You might not be able to easily fall back and regroup. Simply put man, pound for pound in damage trade off in an actual battlefield, you dont have it. And im not talking about our paperwork here. Your SRMs are the only truly solid damage output per range and accuracy weapon you have. Even the lasers lose damage just because of twisting or whatever to negate the dps in a single spot.
Why are you so determined to say the AC2 is such a bad weapon? You are surly not arguing the AC2 does less damage per ton than a perfectly fired UAC5. You quoted the Illa as being a good buzzsaw, but what about the Jagermech that runs 4 AC2s? The Jager still has less weapon tonnage, but maintains a way higher DPS. It just generates more heat so its harder to handle. If anything my mech is actually more heat efficient than yours anyway. I have the higher heat threshold, the better heat dissipation, and if I'm not just going to alpha strike everything all the time I actually have better longevity in a firefight than your variant. Just take a look at the heat efficiency if you don't believe me. Take out one AC2, one ER Large Laser, and you'll find that if I just don't fire one weapon that I still match your variant in damage and have 7% more heat efficiency than you. Talk about battlefield testing all you want, you won't get definitive results because you can't control the major factors. I have the numbers on my side to say this Highlander excels in some places your Highlander does not. If you can't give me facts that I haven't already explained in detail, then I am considering this discussion to be at its end.
well man i tried. you'll learn. Just give it time and experience. Your "facts" are based on perfect world scenarios, not real time battles. I cant put experience into a number format. And i dont know you well enough to go record 10+ games just to prove it. This is why i said try it. Thats the only way i can actually convince you, is if you try it. not on fucking scratch paper and forums, but in actual fights. How about, in general, most people are scared of the UACs when being shot at by them and tend to retreat but not a/c2s? is that something i can put into a mathematical form? You also seem to forget that a raw damage output half the time doesnt mean squat. I can drill holes through your CT with 2 PPCs and a gauss MUCH faster than a/c2s and an ERLL ever will. Id also never let your other weapons get in range to minimize your output while doing my full ranged potential. Damage doesnt mean shit if your dead. "Talk about battlefield testing all you want, you won't get definitive results because you can't control the major factors." ^^ this is what you said and that is EXACTLY my point. Your formulas and math wont mean dick when you actually get on the field. But its fine, i had to learn the hard way to. " If you can't give me facts that I haven't already explained in detail, then I am considering this discussion to be at its end" Really? if you cant take a different opinion and view point then why are you here? My whole argument has been about the shit that CANT be put into mathematical proof. Sorry if you cant and/or refuse to see it. You put your mech up for the whole world to criticize, what did you expect? For everyone to agree and say "OMG this thing is just SUPER beast and can handle anything!" It doesnt happen, no mech can do that. I dont come in here with personal agendas and biases when i criticize other mechs, only my own. Simple truth is that not all weapons are good and not all builds perform like the owner thinks they do. Took me awhile to accept that. I thought i had phenomenal builds till i came to this site and people schooled me. I've learned to remove my pride and stubbornness and accepted that i wasnt as good as i thought i was. I still hate to use PPCs because they are so popular, but that doesnt mean they aren't super powered and effective right now so i still tell people to use em. Simple truth is that i dont even really like the UACs but its been tested and proven by better pilots then myself that they way out perform the a/c2.
Well since I got some time to think last night, I figured I'd at least try out a few modifications. Can't test it since my computer is on the fritz, but maybe I'll have a good head start once I bring the game back online. I find taking tonnage out from the ballistics makes both sides of this mech scary, which makes the best use of that STD engine. Artemis also lets the SRMs work out to 270 meters.
