Macros. Cheating or not? Whats your opinion?

So I have read a lot of posts on Mechspecs that talk about macros that make it easier to shoot weapons in one way or another. Not sure but I believe that PGI's official stance is that they are not allowed (correct me if I am wrong). I really dont care one way or another but it is my opinion that the fun in this game comes from knowing you killed your enemy fair and square. Both opponents had the same chance of winning except when skill was inserted into the equation. If it were me and I just killed a few guys in a match that was close and a challenge for both sides, and I used macros then that victory would be less sweet. I dont want to get all philosophical because I know that if I were in a real life kill or be killed situation then I would do anything and everything to kill (all is fair in love and war). But at the same time this is a video game that has rules and restrictions in place that ensure an even playing field so that we can truly test our skills against each other.

I know macros are kind of a gray area so I would like the community's opinion on this.

Is it cheating? Not cheating? Don't care?

Thanks Michael for the poll.

I also wanted to add that a macro can get around the new charge up mechanic of the gauss rifle which to me should not be possible.

 

Very honorable attitude man! I dont care if people use macros. I myself dont use them. I hate jams on UACs but it feels realistic and so be it. I hate the charge up time of the Gauss now and that it often doesnt fire even if charged up. But its realistic so be it. If i can still kill a lot with my skills and style im happy. Be an honorable Mechwarrior!

 

PGI has stated it doesn't care much about macro's. The TAG Toggle macro is something most people are ok with and I believe they have said that it's on the wishlist in future. I use the Tag Toggle myself.

The UAC5 macro's are the biggest question since it helps with optimising the timings of the gun to prevent jams.

I've actually got the software to program the UAC5 but choose not to. I don't condemn the people that do either, if they want to, go ahead but I won't. I will use my own sense of when to fire, I play for the sim experience.

 

Added a poll for you.

Why is it cheating when it is available to everyone? Whether you have a programmable mouse/keyboard or not?

Cheating would be if it was somethign that altered the game files (making a PPC weight the same as a MLas for instance) or altered data packs being sent to the game server in such a way to achieve a desired result or somehow removing the ability for enemy mechs to actually hit/damage you. A macro will simply adjust the speed, or order, that commands are sent to the server. It is no differet than a human being entering commands or altering the way groups are fired etc. In fact I am sure there are some Korean video game players who are able to mouse manage just as fast....

Is he cheating cause he is Korean?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbpCLqryN-Q

Macro setups are available to everyone who wants to take the time to learn them.

 

Macros are an accepted part of gaming. you simply cannot be a top flight starcraft player without a whole lot of them at your disposal. In the case of starcraft it doesn't remove the skill.

It's the same here, someone has triple uac5, he can fire just the right way to get the most out of that, but game after game after game? the marco makes it a little bit easier, but its not doing something you can't do yourself.

An example, are my physical toggle switches cheating? is someone with an 8 button mouse cheating? I really really want to say " yeah macros are cheating" but the simple fact is they aren't. In your example you have person A: bad player with macros against person B: Slightly better player without. On balance the better player is going to win even though the other does not have them ( in mwo at least)

 

I don't care about macros.
Maybe a little about the UAC/5 anti-jam thing, but not really.

Aimbots and wallhacks are also available to everyone. That doesn't make them legit.

 

This is an interesting topic. In some ways, it's really easy to defend macros. In other ways, it's an obvious digression from developer intentions and from the spirit of the game.

The argument that macros are available to everyone, therefore aren't cheating, is a ludicrous one, though. Everyone could theoretically steal a car. Some people do, most people don't, but it's availability doesn't change its illegality or its inherent moral wrongness. Hacks are available to all, assuming they learn how to do them. Botting in WoW, for example, is easy enough for anyone to do, but most find it reprehensible. Furthermore, to compare MWO to a game like SCII is unfair, given that one is a shooter/simulation and the other is a game about micromanaging hundreds of units simultaneously.

In defense of macros, you could argue that you are merely streamlining a process that could be done manually (TAG toggle, UAC chainsawing, etc.). Is it ridiculous to assume that in the year 3050, some engineer installed a toggle switch on a laser target designator or designed a way to optimize firing sequences for weapons prone to stove rounds and misfires? Absolutely not.

The other side of the coin, however, is developer intent. PGI (or FASA, if you want to get particular) did not intend for UAC firing sequences to be able to be optimized in such a way. It's meant to be the great drawback of the UACs: their propensity to jam sometimes due to their faster RoF. Removing that negative penalty is clearly outside the spirit of the game. More egregious, though, is the macros designed to subvert the new gauss rifle charging mechanic. Disagree with the nerf all you like, but directly subverting it through use of third-party software? That's a bridge to far in my opinion. What if there was a some third-party system that created an auto-aiming mechanic? You're merely automating a process that could be done manually with enough practice/skill/efficiency/whatever. Certainly everyone would oppose the use of such a program, as it removes an element of skill from the game. But then, couldn't you say the same thing with using a gauss rifle or UAC macro? Should using these weapons (designed to be difficult to use in the interest of balance) so effortlessly via a third-party program be allowed?

I guess my opinion is that it is cheating. It's clearly outside the spirit of intent. However, unless PGI decides to say so in it's EULA, then my opinion (or anyone else's) doesn't really matter. So I don't have a problem with it, although I do think that, at a minimum, it definitely skirts the boundaries of gaming ethics. No judgements here against anyone using them. I would have a hard time using them personally, while also claiming to be "good" at MWO.

Great poll, btw! =D

 

All good and valid points. Like I said I dont care either way but for arguments sake; the statement that macros are available to everyone can also apply to actual cheats/hacks (maybe more difficult to find but still available to everyone) and the statement that macros allow someone to to do something that can be done without the macro i must disagree using the example of the new gauss mechanic. It was designed by PGI to be charged up and then released after 0.75 secs. A macro can bypass this if I am understanding it correctly. And if a Korean can do then it is a matter of skill not a macro that does it for you. It should require practice and an investment of time and effort. I guess I am of the mind that if PGI was ok with macros then they would put them in the game. Just my opinion.

 

How does a wallhack function? How does an aimbot function? I think you are just disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing at this point.

As for the big long wall of text about stealing cars and all that? This isn't botting. You still have to AIM the weapons and you have to HOLD THE AIM if you are spraying ammo down range faster than an average player. That requires a different skillset but still requires skill.

Also, if a person is hard of sight requires specialized monitor settings, allowing them to see things larger) does that make it cheating because they have specialized equipment that isn't available to the rest of us?

What about Naga type mouse interfaces (is that thing even a mouse?) with 9000 buttons on it? That is available to everyone but not everyone uses it; is that cheating?

If the game developers have gone on record as saying that it isn't considered cheating then how can a player base tell me I am dishonorable for using it. I analyzed, adapted and overcame.

 

That is the defining test in my opinion. If you can do it manually, (without much effort) then it's not cheating. The TAG is the easiest example so we can run with it... If i put a heavy object, instead of a macros, on the key for the TAG weapon group, is it the same? It's not cheating. The key is pressed or if it's a sticky key like a Caps Lock. The recent Gauss script is even less so. What if your round fires while you lost the target. as is, you could hold on to the trigger for another 1.4 seconds (if the script is set to press fire again in .8.

A cheating script is one that lets you do something you would not normally be able to do manually through the game mechanic. That's the test it has to pass.

 

Iron Curtain - I could not have said it better myself. Very well put. You hit the nail on the head regarding developer intent. That is I think what i was struggling to convey in the original post. I guess it surprises me how die-hard so many people are about canon BattleTech stuff in regards to MWO but at the same time the "spirit" of the game seems to be forgotten. Seems inconsistent.

 

well...heres a simple solution. Lets ask the Devs!

 

@ Michael: No judgments here, bro. Just saying that it's definitely not for me. I personally couldn't use third-party software to subvert developer intent while simultaneously claiming that I'm some pro. But if the EULA doesn't say you're doing anything wrong, then go nuts. Do whatever you need to (within the rules) to help you. And as it stands, macros are within the rules.

 

Not cheating as far as I am concerned. If its fair to use it for TAG then its fair to use it for Gauss or PPCs or whatever else you wanna use it for. "Developer intent" is a way of saying "Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa" in my books.

 

The developers have stated numerous time that macros are fine (KI can't access the MWO forums from work, but I'm sure someone can post a link). I haven't used macros myself, though I did try to setup an AC2 dakka script to see how Firectrl worked. The heat bug on the AC@'s made it useless, though. I may run an AC2 macro once this is fixed just for shits and giggles on a 6xAC2 JM6-DD build.

I really don't see the issue with a gauss rifle macro. It doesn't get around the 0.75sec charge time, it just lets you fire without losing your charge. But if you use the macro, then you run a very good chance of wasting a round if your enemy gets back into cover in that 0.75s charge time. I don't think the trade-off is worth it, personally.

I think the biggest grey area is the UAC5 macro. Using a macro to ensure they don't jam just feels wrong to me, though it doesn't increase the firing rate of the weapon, so it isn't a cheat for me.

The real question though, is if the chain-fire option within the MWO game was customizable like it really should be, would this be an argument at all?

 

It is definitely fair to use it on TAG. Before I find out about the macro I do the TAG old school ghetto way; a hairclip on my keyboard. I am sure that is not cheating either.

As for UAC, I always think that programming attack sequence and weapon group is one aspact of mechwarrior. It is an advanced agressive negotiation machine. I am sure a bit of weaponary programming makes sense. This is not aimbot, and definitely not a hack (like wall hack).

Also, programmable keyboard and mouse is a part of gaming as we know it. If you want to be fair, ban all nice razer mouse and flight sticks and what not and everyone has to use those crappy five dollar mouse at your office. I am sure some state of the art machine would run on those.

 

I work in automation, so I'm a bit biased. Something that's not hard to do manually, but tedious and distracting is a perfect candidate for automation.

Link-fire macros are fine. I've mainly seen them used to set up an optimal DPS fire rate. Honestly, when you set up your weapon group, you should be able to set up the cycle rate. This macro is no substitute for skill. An extreme DPS macro is defeated by jumping and torso twisting. I loved playing against macro queens because they relied on their dakka instead of their skill to kill.

Gauss rifle macros are fine, too. Anyone can tap one button while releasing another... it's not that hard.

There are some where I'd draw the line. For instance, a macro that will that will jump, open missile flaps, turn 180, and hit full reverse strikes me as kinda lame. However, one that opens flaps and turns on TAG with a touch of a button, then does the opposite with another press is kinda cool.

 

While I don't think that macros are cheating, I don't usually use them. I also happen to believe that they create a greater divide between the skilled players and the new. Yes everyone could use them, but not everyone can. The competitive player...us....will use what ever works best for them. We know or take the time to figure out the current minmax in our mech of choice. If we top that off by creating a even better setup than comes with the game by using macros, we effectively outclass the noob in every way.

Of course on the other hand... IF we are competing against others with some talent or maybe more time in the game, we will often be up against those who use macros themselves. In this case I would possibly end up using macros as well.

In the end ELO should push us into like groups of players where most have the same skill and knowledge level, so I would say all's fare.

As to the Devs....I have heard a few unquotable things that lead me to believe that they are changing their tune on the macro bit. Some of the changes have been in line with that as of late.

As to the comparison with well known types of hacks....Man there is a very thin line that seams to be the only one any more. If the people who make the game say it's a cheat, it's a cheat.

 

The only thing ive used in this game that felt like cheating was the old Seismic Sensor. free map/wall hack.