CTF-3D The Unoriginally-Titled 'Mech (2x ERPPC, 2x ERLLas, 1x AC2, 1x JJ, XL280)

This statement is wrong on so many levels.

 

That argument seems backed by very many points.

 

Yep:

1] no, it's not a waste of a layout, in fact every single previously popular and meta-strong 3D variant except for the dual PPC + gauss used energy slots only. Only now are we seeing the balance changes done by PGI coax players to start including an AC/10 or 2 AC/5s on 3Ds. Only now - literally 11 months after the release and uninhibited energy dominance the 3D has enjoyed since.

2] no, very few mechs have better placed hardpoints for weapons, this is due to the 3D having a low profile and compact body with the head lowered into the shoulders/torso, which means that poptarting with those high-placed energy slots actually gives the 3D a poptart [LoS] advantage over basically every other mech except for a turret-style ridge humping Stalker. In fact, the hardpoint placement and physical profile of the 3D is what has made it such a consistently powerful and meta-relevent mech since its release.

3] later on in a diff post you're talking about how the AC2 is for screen shaking and suppressing in between larger alpha salvos... reality is 1 AC2 is not enough screen shake to reliably juggle and incapacitate an opponent by itself, not to mention staring at someone and plinking out 2 dmg while you wait 4-5+ seconds in order to throw another alpha is just like putting a sign on your mech that says 'core me plox'.

I understand you want to be involved in the discussions and we are happy to have you here on mechspecs giving your opinions helps make us a better community, but please actually think about what you're talking about before you post some junk based on casual anecdotal evidence.

 

You can forget about that!

Since you only reply at the points you feel right, you overlook the main statement: "There are separate contributions of pure energy builts. Use those for exactly this purpose! Why you can't discuss those builts which are proposed. Thank you." Like "your Firecracker" built. http://www.mechspecs.com/forum/index.php?topic=3088.0. Post in this whatever you wanna. But this article isn't made for the purpose to abuse the CTF-3D The Unoriginally-Titled 'Mech (2x ERPPC, 2x ERLLas, 1x AC2, 1x JJ, XL280) built to make it another Fireckracker article!

[quote author=Soy link=topic=4362.msg26705#msg26705 date=1382787153]
1] no, it's not a waste of a layout, in fact every single previously popular and meta-strong 3D variant except for the dual PPC + gauss used energy slots only. Only now are we seeing the balance changes done by PGI coax players to start including an AC/10 or 2 AC/5s on 3Ds. Only now - literally 11 months after the release and uninhibited energy dominance the 3D has enjoyed since.
[/quote]
11 months of stupidity won't make up for an in my opinion false use of Hardpoints available. Meta no matter what.

[quote author=Soy link=topic=4362.msg26705#msg26705 date=1382787153]
2] no, very few mechs have better placed hardpoints for weapons, this is due to the 3D having a low profile and compact body with the head lowered into the shoulders/torso, which means that poptarting with those high-placed energy slots actually gives the 3D a poptart [LoS] advantage over basically every other mech except for a turret-style ridge humping Stalker. In fact, the hardpoint placement and physical profile of the 3D is what has made it such a consistently powerful and meta-relevent mech since its release.
[/quote]
Poptarting is all about lift up with jumpjets - ok. The 2 torso energy points are high placed to compensate the low placement of arms. Because of this - jump sniping is only usefull with both PPCs mounted in the Torso - ok. The Weapons in the arms have NO influence in poptarting. This equals into mostly usless LLs untill you get yourself exposed for longer time into LOS to fire them.

And you name it by yourself. There are other mechs out with equally or even better high mounted weapons. They may can not jump but they are as usefull as the CTF in a "ridge fight".

[quote author=Soy link=topic=4362.msg26705#msg26705 date=1382787153]
3] later on in a diff post you're talking about how the AC2 is for screen shaking and suppressing in between larger alpha salvos... reality is 1 AC2 is not enough screen shake to reliably juggle and incapacitate an opponent by itself, not to mention staring at someone and plinking out 2 dmg while you wait 4-5+ seconds in order to throw another alpha is just like putting a sign on your mech that says 'core me plox'.
[/quote]
Oh w8 are we playing the same game. It doesn't seems so. if you w8 4 to 5 seconds for other weapons to come of from cooldown the ac2 has made a DPS of 3.85 * 4 to 5sec = 15,4 to 19,25 damage. Yes it isn't the higest shake, but you underestimated the annoyance while this time, if you repostion yourself and change for example spots.

 

This website is for the discussion of builds, this thread specifically for a build which many of us so far in the discussion have taken various issues with in terms of the builds overall efficiency and thus competitiveness.

Then you brought up ridiculous conjecture about how not utilizing certain hardpoints on a particular mech variant was a waste and that the meta built around that waste was 'false' and 'stupidity'.

Well, no sir. You're wrong on all accounts. This isn't about other peoples builds or anything, I'm simply pointing out that I think you've clearly missed the point on previous meta that the 3D thrived in. It still thrives with high energy poptart loadouts, there is still very little that can counter it. Talking about shake juggling people with a single AC/2 isn't even viable. Staring at people to surpress in between big alphas isn't viable. Running mechs with 20% heat efficiency isn't viable. Unless you're a casual dropping with a bunch of rooks on the short busdropship. In which case, yeah sure, have fun with whatever uncompetitive build you feel like.

But yeah don't listen to me, I don't have 2 mil XP in 3D before the game even left beta or anything... move along...

 

It is rediculuse how you try to come around the fact, that this article is about this loadout and not about the meta or what works best!!

And you name it again! This website is for the discussion of builds. Not to make every build the same. And yes you are right there are issues with the primarily build. Those points were called. But you know what? It could be fixed into the 0815 build or into something else! But you also read, that the person who started the article said a bit later: "I was actually considering a build extremely similar to this! [...]". He toyed around with some Ac's to fit into it. What seems to me a good choice to use the potential of the chassi! And then again, another one come up with the 0815 i hit the meta build: "Drop the ballistics, you need the critslots for plenty of Heatsinks for continuous fire."

This is all what makes me sad about this whole article. Someone made a build. It do not work out very well in the viewpoint of others. OK. They make suggestions. The one who setup this article reply to it, in a noticeable manner. And again another reply in the article the 0815 build. This drives me crazy.

Why don't we fucking erase all Variations mentioned in this sub and make the 0815 sticky. Further capture all articles, which get started, say those builds sucks and the only true build is the 0815 i hit the meta build. And if you don't do so you are a prick, who fucking don't have any experience, because you know the only viable one variant is the 0815 i hit the meta build, and this build is it for sure, since we have Quadrillions of XP.

 

...I don't even understand what you just said, Ilubabe. Thusly, I'll just post the following meme, tab back into TW and consider this discussion over with.

 

Those pics
+
your e-penis testimony "i'm the XPerienced CTF-Player even before it was out of beta" phrase.
=
very entertaining

 

Illubabe, i'm respecting the way how you stand on your viewpoint, but even though you didn't answer my post to your post with a single line and calling me a someone with a "0815" suggestion, i have to tell you, that I have tried every kind of combination of weapon-mix in every of my mechs including the CTF-3D either as Sniper or as Brawler - You can see the ridiculous amounts of my builds here at mechspecs. Not every of them are good, some of them were fail-experiments, but it shows that i have some experience with a variety of the weaponloadouts for almost every mech in this game. No, i don't want to point out the length of my penis. It's just Experience and has nothing to do with my Ego. Period.

About this Thread: The intention of the OP was to make a good Sniperbuild - he said it himself, that he doesnt have much experience with the game, but wanted to experiment with his CTF-3D for the optimal Sniperbuild. You can see his several attempts, even mixing ER-Weapon-Versions with Regular Versions. It really seemed that he didnt already know the "0815" Meta Builds. Maybe everybody including YOU was expecting a "0815" reply. Pls forgive, but if he didn't know already, someone has to tell him. Can you be ok with that? I hope you can. Thank you very much.

I suggested him to try the "0815" Sniperbuild, because he maybe can find out, that with this "0815" build he can make his 3D more playable as a Sniper than he did before (and i know that he will). Is there anything wrong about this? IMO every player should try out the "0815" builds and then thereafter go on with some other experiments. It maybe sounds boring, but IMO it belongs to the topic of "general knowledge" and has nothing to do with "Penis-Length" or "0815".

Now about the "Single-AC2" idea: I have tried something like PPC+LLas+(single)AC2 builds before, something like this:



From the stats it doesnt look bad, But honestly - It didn't work well for me, at least not as well as with the Full-Energy-Loadout. The logic of a strong Sniperbuild is to have a high Alpha.Snipe while having a decent Cool Efficiency to fire again as fast as possible. It's not only to make you dangerous at Long Range, but also at Mid-Close Range. What do you gain by a single AC2? -> a Screenshaker ok. What do you have to sacrifice? -> exposing yourself due to the matter that you have to keep your Face towards the enemy, who could snipe back with a Blast of maybe 30 or even 40 Damage? You can try to poke him, so he can't aim well, but what if the Guy behind/next to your target can snipe you back? You can't screenshake everyone! On the other hand you must sacrifice one LLas or PPC, making your Alpha-Snipe-Damage less powerful. Another matter is that, if you use your AC2 to keep on damaging your target, while waiting for the Cooldown of your Energy-Weapons, your Heat doesnt go down by the hot AC2, so actually you can't snipe very much with the Energy-Weapons. Why do you want to make your Sniping Ability less effective? Why?? Give me a single reasonable reason. I don't see any. For screenshaking-fun i would play Double UAC5 builds on the CTF-3D, everytime over this Single AC2 concept.

I also believe that Soy has far more experience with the 3D than i do, because i am rather playing other roles and not as long as he did with this game or the 3D. So why do you disrespectfully call him a Penis-Guy instead listening to the veterans? Soy is not someone, who wants to point out his Penis-Length, he is simply an awesome veteran Sniper.player. It was YOU, who tries to show some Penis-Length with your provocative statements. But what have you done by all your messages? Everything but not suggesting a single thing to the OP, but only calling us dickheads, who only can reply with "0815" meta-builds. I haven't read a single viable suggestion from you or any proofs for your statements. Play 100 games with your loadout-idea, then show us some facts, e.g. with some scores and finally we can discuss your point of view. I don't have a problem with that. But actually only doing critism on "0815" builds is not the reasonable thing to do in a thread like this. Be CONSTRUCTIVE! I don't sense it in your messages. I at least suggested CONSTRUCTIVELY a "0815" build (though i never knew that meta builds are "0815"). But YOU, Mr.Wannabe-Smartass haven't make a single constructive thing here. Pls start with that and do more useful suggestions for the OP. If you don't have any better suggestions than our "0815" stuffs or respectful things to say, then simply be quite.

Blagg-out.

 

Blagg Zear, first this is no offensive towards you. DarkLobster wrote in the 5th post a suggestion what nailed the 0815 energy meta poptard build. Since this built was already suggested there was no need posting a nearly as even build again by you. Even though the OP requested something for sniping and give himself a try with the er/normal meshup, i think there was no need to post a nearly same build again. Look what you have wrote: "Drop the ballistics, you need the critslots for plenty of Heatsinks for continuous fire. If you want to snipe with ballistics i would recommend Double-Gauss supported by some Mlas, but sniping with Gauss affords more skill due to Charging.time. Try this. (0815 energy poptard link)"

So what is this about? In the end you did introduce to him the "gauss sniping idea", but why you didn't give him a gauss build?! Because you know that the 0815 give better results. And therefore you posted him a nearly as even 0815. If you wanna told him this is the best try on a sniper setup, which give the best results, you just have could lead him to the "Firecracker" article and said this is the best idea how to built it.

"But what have you done by all your messages? Everything but not suggesting a single thing to the OP, but only calling us dickheads, who only can reply with "0815" meta-builds. I haven't read a single viable suggestion from you or any proofs for your statements."

I didn't suggested any variant, because the only in my opinion viable (AC2) solution was allready mentioned. So didn't saw the need to post it again, or make another call to try this, because i didn't saw the need to flood the arcticle with the same build again, what was proposed by DarkLobster in #14. And before someone comes into this, and say the double AC2 is bla bla. Yes we all know, a JM, DRG and since phoenix release a SHS are yet more viable with this loadout.

PS: I think nobody said it but there is no real solution for a CTF-3D to mix sniping with dakka dakka. The OP wanted something between it and his try resulted in a lackluster build. How have some experience know this and it was written down in this article often enough. But nobody said it this way, that there is no viable build what mix both directionions together. With a "true" sniper you have to have to give up the ballistics, since gauss isn't a hit reliable option anymore. This leave the CTF 3D double ballistic in a spot nobody care of them. But the OP may wanna use those slots. I for myself don't wanna give away the potential those slots offer. But if you don't wanna do so like I, you can't be a viable sniper. In the end everybody have to find his own playstyle. I have found something that works well for me and the sniping i don't enjoy anymore. It is boring. No real action. I love trouble around me not lightyears away. So i don't say much on the how to make the best sniper topic in this article. What matters in the end is that if you snipe you only go for energy. If you wanna dakka dakka setup a brawler. Don't mix it, because the results with a mix build arn't well.

 

You talk as if people can't snipe with Ballistics + Energy on 3D, now that Gauss was put in place.

Well, anyone with a brain before the changes already planned for it with stuff like, oh I dunno, the 9th post in this thread:

The above isn't really min/maxed but neverthless, it's there conceptually. And for the record, this concept was developed in top meta in preparation for Gauss nerf, before the nerf even hit the table...

However, a more pertinent point to make is this- you do realize AC/5 and AC/10 currently go great with PPCs now specifically cuz of the projectile speeds of both those weps are very close (5 faster, 10 slower) to PPC speeds, right? Moreso than the old PPC + Gauss speeds were to each other?

Besides that all I have to add is this:

 

Let's conclude this discussion with the verdict that you have a problem with "0815" Meta-builds or similar ones and can't stand to see them mentioned here. Dude, if you only want to say this to us - fine, thank you for your opinion.

As long as the threadposter or the mods don't find "0815" builds or any similar ones unnecessary or redundant, everything is still ok.

Sniping with Ballistics in the CTF-3D is suboptimal in recent meta, but can be done. Dual AC5s or even Dual AC10 plus one or two PPCs and you have a viable Sniperbuild. But i seriously think you should play/experiment a lot more with the 3D before bitching around here with strange statements.

 

^ what he said

ps - wtf is up with calling them 08/15 builds, the fuck is that about btw

 

Yepp i don't unterstand it as well, why calling the Meta-concepts "0815". As far as I know "0815" is a term for something that is found everywhere but lacks quality. If Meta-builds are "0815" why call them Meta?? Fuck i don't understand it. Give me a break

 

Oh dear -- I didn't anticipate this thread would turn into a warzone! D:

Anyway, y'all stop fighting - I have a status update.

I purchased 3 ERLLas and equipped them to my 3D -- the heat was just barely too unmanageable for my tastes, so I procured 3 ordinary LLas. Alongside an AC/2 and AC/5 grouping, these 3 Lasers are fantastically effective at mid range -- I'm surprised at how often I can get kills with these things, and when heat becomes a problem, I still have the same ol' dakka-dakka to fall back on. My only problem at this point is range -- should I parallel-equip LLas and ERLLas? Should I buy up some PPC goodness and experiment with those? Would a single LLas alongside PPCs and ACs hold water?

My current build, which works okay:


Possible build: The Energy Spammer



tl;dr: LLas good, ERLLas hot, PPC = ???

EDIT: Are UAC/5s worth a crap?

 

Very true! Be very aware. This is a PUG drop setup. Able to handle roles as a sniper and direct-fire support. This is not meant to handle any competitive drops. The Alpha to weight as a jump sniper does not equal the weight/heat used to acquire and the defensive ability should not be needed in competitive drops. In competitive drops, you will NEVER have the time to leave yourself exposed long enough to take advantage of the DPS from 2x AC/5 over 1x AC/10. Hence many builds moving to jump-sniping in Victors/Highlanders with 2x [ER]PPC/1x AC/20.

This is purely built as a long-range DPS build with some melee-range defensive ability. The idea 3D jump sniper in current meta is mos def 2x [ER]PPC/2x LL, 2x [ER]PPC/AC10 or possibly 4xLL. Especially if you can work a STD 255-270 powerplant.

 

One of us.... one of us... It's amazing how many CTF-3D builds converge upon this with extended play with this chassis.

 

*sigh* people please stop argueing with the n00bster.
May I suggest a balistic sniper with 2x AC10?
This is a more general purpose setup with more close up ability. Take out some stuff for more ammo, etc.


Yes it has shorter range, and thus works as a mid range sniper poptart, but the output is quite good even up close and personal.

 

you still can exercise with Gauss.Sniping with a build like this:



even though you need some more skill to have the perfect timing with chargeup, but still it's very cool-efficient and powerful.

just made a testrun (and i only used half of the ammo):

 

I gave the 3 x ERLLas/2 x AC2 a go. I quite liked it, but did find it a bit hot as well (shut myself down a few times... oops). I switched the arm laser to a regular large to help with the heat and left the shoulder lasers as ERs - I can poke away with the ERs at long range without exposing too much of my mech, and when chain-firing all three in closer the overall heat is a bit lower.

You can certainly give PPCs a go. They are a great weapon for pinpoint damage, but they do run hotter than LLasers (Heat values: PPC = 10, ERLLas = 8.5, LLas = 7) and take an extra 2 tons each, which you'll have to pull from somewhere. A very effective Soy-designed sniper build has been posted elsewhere that mixes one large laser with 2 ERPPCs, so that can definitely work. I've tried mixing one PPC with a couple of Large Lasers and an LBX, which also worked pretty well, so you might be able to do something similar.

[quote author=Kappatalist link=topic=4362.msg26766#msg26766 date=1382842577]EDIT: Are UAC/5s worth a crap?
[/quote]

UACs can be very effective (triple UAC5 Ilyas and Jagers are some of the most devastating mechs in the game) but you do have to be aware that they will jam, often at inopportune moments, so they can be tricky to get the hang of. I've tried mixing 2 x UAC5 with 2 x LLas or 2 x PPC before, with pretty good results. They take an extra ton over an AC5 though, which can be a problem if your build is packed tight. They might be worth trying at some point to see if they work for you - some people swear by them, others hate them.