Troll Voting Arguement/Discussion/Whatever

Thank you for the Explanation/Comment on Vote. Why not from the beginning when you give the vote? Takes you ... 1Min. of your life? If you would do it like that for every downvote in future, we all would appreciate it alot. We would learn from you, our Imperial ELO-Highness.


[quote author=Aylek link=topic=6809.msg44739#msg44739 date=1402301077]...
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Well said. I can't agree more. It's not about ELO-thing (however that works in MWO..? Can anyone here prove how good his ELO is, or how good the ELO of the Enemies in a specific Match?), not about if you can load much more Weapons in another Variant (that sometimes works, sometimes not so good).

It's all about the effectiveness of a Weaponsetup. That`s why so many on the battlefield run the simple dumb 2x PPC + 2x AC5 on almost every Mech/Variant, which has the Hardpoints for it, although there are HPs for moaar Weapons.


hmmm, now i have to find out, how the mentioned 3S Version with MLas Upgrade would work on the Battlefield:

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=146&l=73a79d5bc9a973ee6fd7b218184370891ceb43b9

Going to buy that Mech today..

 

stanfy86.
Been on the forums for 2 days and has already 1/5'd an entire section (kitfox)

 

Yeah i have seen it. My Ultra Fox Build was the first "victim".. idk but might be a mad act of revenge to everybody after his own build was downvoted. Maybe we hurt a poor child. Shame on you guys! How could you??

 

It is about ELO. The game play is different at different ELO's. The only proof I need is the AC2 nerf and the fact that the top tier players are the only ones not crying about LRMs. At the lowest ELO AC2s dominate all the new players because they haven't learned to torso twist, it's why they were nerfed. At the middle ELO, LRMs seem to be the flavor of the day. And at the top, you bring snipe to stomp the crap out of people.

You want to know your ELO? look at the people you're dropping against. Are they in SJR, HoL, 228th, SwK, if so how long did the search for a drop take? If it was a long time, then you are that much further away from their ELO. If you don't see them, then you're no where even near the middle ELO bracket.

ELO does matter.

 

So what do you want to tell us? That 1K+ Screenshots dont show anything for the builds? You want us all to make 1K+ Screenies where all the Big Players are shown? Otherwise the builds are not proven to be effective? Can be rated 1Star? Even if you have all the Enemy Team full of low/middle Elo Guys, i bet with you even then it`s not that easy to hit 1K+ Scores.

But if you want to tell us, that you are so ELO, pls show us everytime on your own builds that you are fighting the strongest players of the world, so that it really proves your builds are worthy to be high rated. Good luck with that, buddy. ;-3

p.s. i'm from the LOL community.. i know all these kinds of ELO.Discussions way much better than how it is here in MWO. Compared this discussion here about ELO is laughable. You are only talking about Assumption, Theories.. Show me transparent ELO Ladders, show me facts, THEN we can talk bout ELO. Not at the moment. Sorry, its pointless.

 

Calm down guys. Troll voting isn't the real issue, look in the mirror.

Blagg, I tend to think that some of the attention that my 'serious' builds have received is partly due to having high Elo.

It's like SuicidalBaby said, the top players are cutting that new meta out of rock and trying to sculpt it down into something competitively viable.

In order for people to recognize that new meta, it has to be played by enough people to reach a critical mass. This occurs typically in two ways, one is by natural intuition of the playerbase which is a delayed reflection of the way patches tweak balance and mechanical functions (imagine bowshock), and the other way is through some individual working out what is referred to as rogue meta. If some other competitive players happen to see a single player working out some innovative rogue meta, then they will most likely try it out themselves or pass it along to another competitive player who will give the concept a serious battery of tests.

And by the way, on the tangent of knowing your Elo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y9DQkI03yF4



Anyways, as far as this thread is concerned, the only thing I have to add is this - if troll voting is capable of undermining all of the builds here, then I think it says there aren't that many people contributing here. Look at it like this, if 100 people vote on a mech it wouldn't even matter if 5 of them were trolls, it will regress to the mean and the general consensus - whether or not it's justified in the high, mid, or low Elo - will come to the forefront on the rating.

So in other words, if the community here isn't large enough to defend itself from itself, I don't think it would be able to validate itself from itself, either. Perhaps we need more people getting involved with the voting so that way all of the bizzaro ratings will be less noticable in the crowd, I dunno - I never put much weight on build ratings personally.

If trolls are able to ruin a rating, then what do low Elo players to to it's rating? I would say high players as well, and yes, but to a lesser extent (cuz there's less good players than bad players). No offense on any of this, by the way. It's about perspective and respecting other peoples skill levels/play styles when considering builds, even if you aren't ever going to see them cuz they suck or vice versa.

 

I know I'm late but can I just point out that this is a hypocritical statement? You've done the exact same thing before. Downvoted a Grid Iron build and said the build fit better on another variant... But when someone down votes your build, and actually has a valid argument, you get buttmad and yell bloody murder.

Who cares if someone votes 1 star? It's a shitty rating on some forum. And if that's really what they think the build deserves, who are you to yell them they're wrong? And let's say it was a vote actually aimed at pissing you off, why do you even care so much?

Stop writing paragraphs about such a petty argument and grow up. Blagg, put down the pitchfork, you're embarrassing yourself. Suicidal stop trying to justify yourself, Just do whatever you want.

 

@ Soy

I totally agree with you. I was just saying that a) talking bout ELO atm to prove a build is good or bad is pointless, b) talking bout builds are NOT proven good with Screenshots is somehow ofc pointless as well, IF you talk about ELO. So it`s pointless in every direction.

 

Is ELO even relevant? Is this game's player base even large enough for an ELO system to work properly?

 

It's my firm belief that a high ELO player should be able to make most builds work most of the time.

Rating builds 1/5 just because it's not used by "High ELO" doesn't tell anyone anything. A mech build can have a specific purpose or application and excel at it, THAT is what a build should be rated for. Not comparing it to High ELO Meta that is specifically chosen based on the widest range of effective applications and FLD.

SB, based on your rating logic, you are throwing all mechs into a 1v1 vs. a DS. If it fails, it gets a 1/5, if it wins, meh, nothing can win against it right? If it does win, then it must have been an incompetent DS pilot or a really good XXX pilot, but the build itself isn't any good. so 1/5

Also, as you said yourself, Its all about ELO. Are you rating a build sole based on your experience in the higher ELO? Do you not stop and consider the applications of a build at ANY ELO level?

Do you understand the problem? There is a difference between general ratings and biased ratings. You're ratings are completely bias based on your comparison to a high ELO bracket. There is nothing wrong with that as long as you state why. That way Mr. New-to-the-game will learn that certain builds are used by the top ELO players and found ineffective because Blank reasons. They will see that one of the more skilled players in the game feels a certain way about a build and know if it really applies to them.

Another example: Wubanshee http://www.mechspecs.com/forum/index.php?topic=5858.0
I know you've been running a pretty similar build: Nameless http://www.mechspecs.com/forum/index.php?topic=6858.0

Why is one only 1/5 over your personally recommended build? 2 Ranged weapons and a STD engine vs. super heat efficiency for longer sustained alpha strikes resulting in over 1 additional sustained DPS. I agree that your Nameless build is more effective in a wider range of applications (that high ELO logic again). The Wubanshee can alpha strike more and cooldown faster. Because you feel one advantage out-weights the other, the Wubanshee instantly gets a 1/5. I've maintained above a 3 k/d with this build, but hey, It must just be a couple good rounds

 

This whole argument is ridiculous.

I feel bad for Michael who has to deal with this crap every day.

 

I know what you wanna try bindmind. But your attempt is pointless as well. I never was butthurt bout someone downvoted my build as some might think. Re-Read my comments for the initiative against Trollvotes carefully. You will find out, i was only angry about 1Star Votes without Comment. In all several comments i have made clear, that you can downvote my builds with -1000 stars, but i want you to tell me a good reason. Because if i can do good success with it and prove it with Scoreboards, i think you have to gimme a good reason, why it doesnt work for yoi.

As you have just started the Post to do something against the recent "Troll", it shows that you are actually on my side. You yourself CARE about "Trolls". So i dont see the reason of yours to fight against me. Sorry, explain me.

If you think i am the Pitchfork holder and i am embarrassing myself.. Well, believe what you want to believe. I`m just discussing, if you want to present me as the Evil, do what you like.

 

Golden poo compared to most other communities at least

 

There's a difference between rating a build 1 star and rating a whole chassis one star, obviously. Also, when I spoke about "your build" that was a general statement.

And you are definitely the most proactive person on this whole argument. While some people groan, you write paragraphs about "who dunnit?". Other people in this thread barely ever discuss this particular topic. I could also direct my comments at some other people, but it's clear who the main guy is.

Again, this argument is dumb. I'm going to go play more video games.

 

Ok, rgr rgr! You go play more video games, and i try to grow up!! kk?



btw.

I was just trying to say THIS to SuicidalBaby, but somehow i can`t express myself properly. Thank you bindmind.

 

Please please please, it hurts my eyes, please stop spelling it ELO in capital letters. It's Elo, it comes from a nice guy named Elo.

That being said, you can continue.

 

ELO there epikt

 

Regardless of ELO, elo, trolls or not trolls I removed every single vote in the Kit Fox section. 1 Star EVERY SINGLE BUILD is a no no and earns a ban. It is being a dick for the sake of being a dick, nothing more and nothing less.

I do agree with Soy though (mark down this date people) in that a single 1 star build in a thread that has 12 ratings or more shouldn't really bunch up anyones panties all that much. Since the Kit Fox section is less than a week old (and I just turned on ratings the other night) there hasn't been a chance to build up a pool of good solid reliable ratings. 1 star voting them skews the curve. Now that we have observed and reacted to the situation I doubt there will be more of these types of incidents in the future.

 

I saw an xl in an assault mech that wasn't named victor, which tends to get a kneejerk reaction out of me. I changed it to 3 stars after looking closer.

Blagg, you really are taking this in the wrong light. I'm sorry you think this is elitism, but it's not. Screen shots can be read like a book if you actually look beyond the 1000+ numbers. But that is not what I am talking about when I speak of Elo and it's merits in conversation concerning my view on builds.

 

I know exactly what you tried to do reading Scoreboards beyond the 1000+ numbers. But as long as we all cannot see transparent Skill-Rating-Numbers of each of the Players, you are only doing your biased interpretations of the Names and Scores and whatever you want to see in the scoreboard. You can always see+say, a player with low damage score is a low "Elo" Player, you can always see+say a whole team with low scores is a bunch of "Noobs", you can also always say a 1000+ Guy was only lucky with his probably crap build, or the other way around, that he is maybe a soooo skilled player that he scored 1000+ score with a single MedLas fighting a whole package of headless chickens which are not even familiar with the targeting+moving systems in MWO. Try to interpret scores all like you want, you will in the end fail utterly to convince me, that "Elo" does matter in MWO to rate a build or more correctly here - a Player`s Skill.

Try to understand the meaning of the term, before using it widely in a confusing way.

To clear things up before we continue this pointless discussion - you rated builds with 1Star without any comments for several builds as you admitted yourself. That`s the whole reason why we are making this discussion at all. After calling out this problem with uncommented 1Star-Downvotes and having a Solution now to address this matter, you feel pissed that your Downvotes are now transparent so you cannot hide under the Shadow. Sorry for you. I`m not seeking the fight with guys like you. I just don`t accept that guys like you can do things from the shadows. If you like to give feedback, give it in a respecting way - by writing your reason so that the build poster and all other interested people for the build can understand+learn why the build does deserve a "crap" rating.

Afterwards you told us your reasons for your downvotes - that`s all i wanted from you and so i`m content. If you and all of us here avoid uncommented 1Star Votes, i and you won`t have any problems with each other. The Suggestion+Solution that is now implemented is well accepted, if it was not, the majority would have given negative feedback in the initiative discussion started by me. So why still having this conversation, when everything is ok right now? Is it really me, who felt "butthurt", or is the guys, who cannot act in the shadows anymore?

@bindmind: It`s very interesting, that in this recent discussion only the guys seek the fight with me and trying to present me as the Troublemaker, who are obviously the ones who gave several low ratings to builds without any comments in the past, while the majority of the other raters was on much higher ratings for the same builds. Very interesting, isn`t it?

However, if we can agree that low Ratings should always be explained to the build posters, then everything`s no problem. It still doesn`t mean, that you must do this. It is your own choice to comment or not - the system gives you both options, but don`t expect acceptance of the build poster or other site members if you silently downvote a apparently ok-good build to the deepest levels of hell without even a single word bout why.

Peace Brother and damn let`s find out our "ELO" in a 1on1 Battle!!!