Small Lasers - Suggestions? (Discussion + Poll)

I have 20+ pieces of this smallest pewpew gun in my Garage. In the past I used them in some Lights Mechs for Experimentation. I switched to either Small Pulses or MedLas. I even experimentated in some Heavier Mechs with plenty of Energy HPs, like the Banshee - in the end i realized that 90% of my games in such loadouts i either never used them (rangewise) or i was already shot down before i could get in range. So for me this Weapon is like a waste of tonnage and rather designed for tiny Mechs which don't have the tonnage for Heavier guns. But honestly - even they, like the Locust, should run MedLas or SPLas.

Do you agree or have any other opinion? What changes would be required for them so you would use them? Tell us

p.s. What about Clan ER Small Lasers? Do you use them in your Clan Mechs?

 

I'll actually start with cERSLs, and say they are absolutely useable and awesome on a lot of builds. I love putting them on a Nova (classic 6 ERML 6 ERSL build), but I use them on a Dire Wolf as well (5 cUAC5, 8 cERSL). They have the capacity to put out a nasty amount of firepower with relatively low heat, so they are very easy to maintain.

Now, as far as IS, they are only worth using on the faster lights IMO. The Jenner F with 3 MLas 3 SLas (instead of the usual 6 MLas) can be nasty, trading heat efficiency for a bit lower alpha. Also seen a lot of Firestarters excel with SLas builds, as long as they weren't Embers, which do better with MLas.

It's just a strike fighter type of weapon, you need to get in and bug out fast with the IS versions, and lights are naturally best suited, but only if they are boated to a certain extent. The Clan versions, with their extra range, are actually quite a bit more powerful, and are useful on just about any brawling mech to keep DPS up without overheating vs cERMLs.

 

I see no use for IS small lasers.
Is it because the weapon feedback is so nonexistent? Anyway, even the 8 SLas Firestarter lacks punch and did not worth the requirement to get this close of a target.

 

I should've mentioned, I had better luck mixing and matching...did a 4MLas 4SLas Firestarter and had some nasty games (lead in with the mediums, mop up with the smalls when heat got high). Since I tend to get in close with my Ember, it came naturally to me

Also, if you ever want to see popular clan versions, just check the Nova forums. They have quite a few builds there for ERSLs for a reason

 

I tried that 4MLas + 4SLas on the Firestarter, but small lasers produce extra heat unlike MGs and they don't have the same effective critchance. Boating for a 24 Damage sounds nice on paper but in practice only if you can find some slow heavy Mechs running around solo. But in most other situations you need the extra range.

Ow fyi there is a recent discussion in the official forum: http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/168198-small-lasers-why-bother/

 

I dunno...a lot of the time, when I do well with small lasers on an IS mech, it's on specific maps. Specifically, Frozen City or River City, and to an extent Canyon Network and HPG Manifold, they work very well. The prevalence of cover is a game changer when you have a max speed light, and the short range, fast punching SLas works very well for those areas. The main idea is that I'm not going to be there long enough in a lot of fights for the extra heat (compared to MGs) to matter, since I'll be long gone and on to the next target before someone turns toward me. SLas also has the advantage of firing fast, and I've made some insane runs through 6-7 enemies at once on Frozen City tagging them all and disappearing. Even caused a few team kills as they tried to get me

They are a niche weapon for sure (woe be to the player who has them on Alpine), but in the right situations, they are more powerful than most people give them credit for being.

 

Locust, Jenner, Kit Fox and Nova. Fast backstabbers or light dogfigthers.

 

Alpine and the crater are why I hate them. I've used ERSL on a few builds as close in knife fighting weapons to strip off arms while waiting for larger weapons to cycle or on my nova's for a lower heat alternative. I've put off my locusts for so long for a reason.

 

So Firstly, Blagg, Thank you for creating this thread, as you know from my explaination on a different subforum, our opinion of SLas differ. So this provides me ample opportunity to explain why i use SLas on some builds.

I do agree with you they are not a primary weapon on a mech larger then a light. Yet they have their advantages in a brawl.

Ill start by making a comparison between Mlas and Slas.

Stats of a MLas:
5 damage
4 heat
1.16 HPS
3 Cooldown
540 max range
1 slot
1 ton

Stats of a SLas:
3 damage
2 heat
.62 HPS
2.25 cooldown
200 max range
1 slot
.5 tons

So since i only ever use SLas in pairs due to the .5 tonnage, ill double to stats of the SLas to take tonnage out of the comparison

1 MLas = 5 Damage, 4 heat, 1 slot
2 SLas = 6 Damage, 4 heat, 2 slot

In a mech that is close to tonnage, but has extra slots, and isnt having a critical heat issue without these SLas on it, These weapons are valuable. They do the same heat as a MLas, and at around 130-140 meters are doing eqaul damage.

Now i am not saying that these weapons would ever be used as a primary weapon. It is used only as a last resort, and only on mechs that cant use a more crit seeking weapon system like a MG. The Mech is use this on are Battlemasters, a Jester. These mechs are once with armor/mobility/defenses, that allow them to close and survive long enough to be within the effective range of these lasers. They are uses to provide a last resort weapon system. One that you can fire not as a primary alpha, but as a crap i need that one extra shot to save my life. They provide the best bang for the buck in that manner.

HammerFall: (1 Gauss, 1 PPC, 2 ML, 1 AC2, 4 SL, BAP, XL350)
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=118&l=fc07d52665b24dae92a3fbad0ad939b5fd391975
*This mech was used often before the last pass to weapons that nerfed the ac/2 and ppc, so probably could use a rebuild*

On this battlemaster i use them as a alternate weapon for when the minimum range of the PPC doesnt allow me to fire it. The PPC does 10 damage and 10 heat, at greater then 90 meters, but under 100 meters, 4 small lasers do 12 damage, and 8 heat. so when battle closes and im unable to use the PPC i can still have the same punch, But once again secondary/backup weapon.


Othar: (4ML, 2 SL, 3 SRM6 +A, STD 350)
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=204&l=7612e9495bbdd48eafb3134b5c386c6459604944

A mech that had 2 extra slots, and one ton of usable space. These SLas are not primary weapons and honestly i find that i dont use them very often, but i have used them. They are there as a back up weapon again. I fire my ML in pairs, and my SRM's on chain, but when in a brawl i have used them as a last ditch attempt to pop a torso when its just barely holding on. Used in this manner they have kept me alive in a 1v1 duel where that atlas was about to take me out with one more AC/20 shot but couldnt cause the Slas shot popped the RT and neutered the opponent. Due to this varient not having ballistic slots i couldnt use the primary weapon choice for this type or use, the MG, so i used the SLas.


The Joker: (2 LPL, 2 ML, 2 SL, 2 ams, 2 JJ, XL 325)
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=121&l=f8c88e35d5d58e056cda4d8bd45b271b6d230915

In order to have the speed, and AMS, and damage profile of this mech, SL are useful. as the mech closes from 1200 meter, you are adding more and more damage, and not much heat. By the time you are in range with the SL that last hard pop of 6 damage has save me more times then i can count.

So in conclusion, I use them, not as a main weapon, and not very often, but only as a last resort, and mostly do to the HPS and the fact that it spikes less then half the heat of a medium laser but does a little more damage. Not every weapon is useful to everyone, this weapon is no exception. Im sure there is a person out there who could make a claim for Flamers if you looked hard enough. So while i might use them on some of my builds, i dont expect to see them on most anyone elses build.

 

The Firestarter 4MLas+4SLas has already been mentioned, and that is what I settled on when grinding the FS9-A and FS9-S (well, 3 Slas on the S). This is also the mix I used on the BJ-1X. The speed on these chassis lets me get in and mix it up with the SLas and get out again. I just find it's a better compromise on heat/weight/damage than running all MLas.

I've also recently been playing my HBK-4P a lot, and one of my favourite builds is 2x LLas in the arms, and 7x SLas in the Torso and Head, with as many heatsinks as possible. Once you get into the ~100m range, 21 dmg every 3 seconds is pretty nifty, and you can keep firing them for nearly a minute before overheating as long as you lay off the LLas.

That said, I tried doing this in the BLR-1G, but even for backup weapons the range is just too short for a slowish moving assault and they rarely got used.

So for me, they work on lights and quick mediums, but for anything larger, they are pretty much useless.

 

I'm with many others here in stating that IS Small Lasers just aren't up to snuff. Not unless you but them on a quick "Hit and Run" mech and can bug out before taking much dmg, only to pass by again and zap them for a quick spot of damage.

I DO use cERSL though, primarily on my Nova, but also am comfortable with tossing them on a Heavier Brawler. Shorter range is fine if the heat cost isn't in the roof and the beam duration is lower.

 

I find them marginally effective even in lights. You simply have to get too close to do damage and in a light you can't stand around firing, which negates the high dps per weight and heat. One heavier mechs I find it's always more useful to have even one medium than two small's.
Which brings me to a point. Small lasers are supposed to be useful back up weapons even for heavies and I would like to see them useful for that.
They're are really three things PGI could do to make them useful for that. Increase the range, damage, or dps. Increasing the range to an interesting level would really just make it a low power medium range weapon. Not really a back up weapon. Increasing the damage to what I would consider a useful level would bring it too close to the ml. The only one I think is viable is to increase the dps by decreasing the recycle and burn time. That would make it a very close range, low damage, high dps weapon.
Here are numbers I think would work to make it a useful back up weapon and I did modify the spl too since I think it would be necessary. Some people will cry bloody murder at how much I lowered these.

Small Laser
Range 90 effective 180 max
Damage 3.0
Recycle 1.5
Duration .5
Heat 2

That gives a dps of 1.5 which is high, but I lowered the range back to what it was a few months ago. I think that would make it a backup weapon for most mechs. They'd load one or two up because why not, it's only .5 tons each. The heat would be easily manageable.

Small Pulse Laser
Range 90 effective 180 max
Damage 3.4
Recycle 1.5
Duration .25
Heat 2.4

That would give the spl a dps of 1.94. It seems a little excessive to me, but I honestly think the spl needs a kick especially if its range is lower.

Honestly, that is what I would do with the sl and spl if I could. I might make the changes slightly less drastic, but they would have to be pretty close to this for me to consider putting it on as a back up weapon.

 

The first thing i thought about this Weapon was like - wtf max range 180m? (now it's 200). So what Mechs could use them? At first i also had this idea of the 'last resort' weapon. But looking at the stats i pretty fast realized that using them as last resort weapon against Mechs (not Infantery) you'd need at least 4 to have some serious damage. Anything less is a Joke against a close range Opponent at full armor. I have two MedLas in some Medium Missile Boats and i can tell how weak they are even if Armor is stripped to orange-yellow color. Now if the range is 100-200m you are in a critical situation where either your enemy has a low Firepower (you better pray for it) or he has enough to blast some components of yours within two Alphastrikes. Usually smart opponent pilots don't go into this Critical range, because it's risky for themselves unless you boat PPCs. So if they keep the usual close range brawling distance of 100-200m (e.g. SRM Strikers) then Small Lasers, especially in low Numbers are wasted tonnage. Instead 2 SLas i'd rather load another MLas so to have the additional max range of 340m at lower Heat Production. In one case i agree - you have an Energy Boat Mech with at least 6 HPs, then a build like 2(ER)PPCs + 4SLas could be reasonable.

On Lights my opinion is - Fighting in sub100m range is like Kamikaze Mode. If you are at 150+kph and find some solo dude running around with no defending teammates then yes Boating SLas is a Blast. Engaging a Pack is like playing lottery - Risk some little Spread Damage (Beam Duration) or get killed in some few seconds. A Mix of MLas + SLas is the only thing i find reasonable in Lights.

Now if they would have the Range extended to 130 - 260 then i'd say they are a viable choice compared to SPLas and MLas. Atm a total garbage weapon. Even MGs are better last resort weapons for the additional crit chance the Zero extra Heat and the extra Range (wtf??)

 

I have to agree with Fenevik on the usefulness of SLasers, i have only deployed them on fire starters, but as such, they are a backup weapon even there. Primarily due to the recycle time, as in under 100 meters, i can get another shot in quickly versus a MLaser. Even on my firestarters, i try to pack at least one LLaser or PPC, for a long range punch, instead of going with the MLaser mold.

SirBurntChicken, also I agree with you on possibility of making the duration shorter. I would be willing to try it out and see how it works. The reward would be that you deal more damage (DPS even), but the risk is, you have to be up close to the enemy(s). I think it's worth it.

I think PGI is kind of doing this now with cERLLasers, by extending the time you need to hold it on target to deal full damage, the reverse might also need to happen, where the SLaers beam time and recycle time is reduced.

 

"Red lasers, or how i learned to love the Blackjack" (Kubrick reference )

http://www.mechspecs.com/forum/index.php?topic=5563.0

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=79&l=1c8ff62284976d9dd41f3c8fc1fd7fdb931a6853

Im in love with this BJ, also with my finisher

 

It's kind of not great but I love having all my leftover (there's always leftover) laser slots in the Firebrand filled with an array of small lasers. It's usually the four torso ones.

 

Blagg, I put it back at 90/180 because it's supposed to be a back up/last resort weapon, but honestly there's not much difference between 90/180 and 100/200. A range increase for small lasers to 130-260 would be interesting, but wouldn't make me chose them over medium lasers especially on a heavier mech. An interesting idea I had was small lasers with an effective range of 100 but a max range of 300.

Mostly though, I want small lasers to be an effective back up weapon. That means they lack range and alpha damage, but do high dps, much higher than a medium laser. They're for knife work when you're out of ammo and in too close. Something an ac/srm/lrm boat would consider. A dps of 1.5 seems high for a half ton low damage weapon but it needs to be to deal with the range issue.

Also I did once put for small lasers on an ac40 Jäger, but that was mostly a waste.

 

I really like this idea

 

Just a thought that occurred to me, if IS SLas took up half a hardpoint (as in, you could equip 2 of them in 1 energy HP), how fast would SLas boats come into the mix, even if the damage was nerfed a bit to account for it? I could see SLas making some less viable mechs very dangerous if you could double them up in one hardpoint, since they could double their firepower for a close range punch.

 

I had thought of the small lasers taking up only half a hardpoint too, but I think it's less practical than a buff of some sort. A buff would require changing some numbers. Making a half hardpoint weapon might require a bit more.
This discussion on small lasers does bring a point to my mind. IS needs some new weapons with new and interesting uses. Small lasers with high dps could be fun to try. An lrm boat with 4 small lasers could give someone who comes too close a nasty surprise. I'm not sure what MW lore has to offer as far as other weapons go and since this is about small lasers I'll confine my ideas to those. The fact that small laser are problematic is an opportunity to make them something fascinating.