Inherent Weight Advantages - A Discussion.

Unload pain then utilize cover is how I play currently even with assault mechs as currently tanking only lasts seconds in this game. I'd like to see what it would be like with more armor on the mechs as I'd probably be better than fine at the new meta. I think the reason they didn't increase the armor yet Is the satisfaction of getting those one hit or really quick easy kills appeals to the COD battlefield players they may like having around. This game is already more of a Halo type ttk but I still hope they try it at least. I'm a brawler/skirmishers at heart

 

I know it's a pipe dream, but I wish there would be more effects from weaponry actually hitting you. It's been a long, LONG time since knockdown was removed (since everyone trolled the shit out of Russ in a match by keeping him knocked down nonstop, in fact), but that was always a key mechanic and threat in the previous games and books. You had to watch where you were going (and what you did) so you wouldn't faceplant into a friend, or catch a gauss slug while jumping around, since it would knock you on your ass. I've been re-reading the Michael Stackpole books about the clan invasion, and one of the things that really sticks out is how getting hit with the big weapons always makes the mech snap around from the impact...autocannons and gauss rifles are not gentle things, and their rounds get your attention in major ways.

An increase in TTK, along with a reintroduction of physics, would change a lot about the game. Brawling could excel more, but you could have niche tactics as well (lights performing a running jump kick with JJs to a taller mech walking backwards) that changed the flow of a battle. Those mechs that have actual hands could find uses for them too...imagine being able to pick up rocks, or the broken part of a mech, and use it to held shield yourself. Or grab on to an enemy mech and hold it for your teammates to finish while you sacrifice.

Again, it's all a pipe dream, but I really wish we could have that sort of immersive mech play.

 

PGI seems to be firefighting their own moves of the last 6 months or so, they have created a monster with the introduction of clantech. Even after the weapon nerfs in September (?) the win rate of clan vs IS was allegedly around 70:30.. GMan says: "Clan [...] faster with stronger weapons and less vulnerable engine" and that's the reason why comp will always prefer clan tech unless they HAVE to use IS.
I have never ever seen a LORD using anything other than an IS light and clan-everything-else. Why should they?

TTK is lower for clans

I had quit the game in January 14 or so, and just came back in September, so I was immediately squashed by the power creep, I'm a direct victim of the first hour.

BTW "scouting" in light mechs is just a secondary job really. MOst of the time you know where they are.. if you find them after 2 minutes into the game, your job is done. spotting can't be a light-only job, firestarters and non-ecm lights are inherently terrible at this anyway. Yeah I can rush forward, drop a UAV and find the red team, and what comes after that?

Also I don't understand how increasing ARMOR would NOT make life for lights miserable. In a death knell you need like 4 minutes to digest a highlander and that is extremely dangerous.

I say: don't buff, nerf. Nerf the clans so that they are actually balanced competitively to current IS; then tone down some overquirked mechs, and go from there.

PS knockdown.. please, no. I get bumped by my own team so many times per match it's not even funny. If there is knockdown they need to remove collision damage.

 

I was against knock down coming back in at all because it just buffed the already overplayed heavies and assaults or at least nerfed the lights and mediums much more but if implemented like this I might really like it.

Maybe add something like light and medium mechs getting up faster even if they don't add full melee and it might work. Note I would love melee combat in this game. It would take it to the next level but they are already in over their heads I hope for it in the future though. "I am something something slayer of men..." awesome line I'm butchering but I'm sure someone here can help with this.

Also making it be random chance whether the mech lost balance in the collision might make people do it on purpose less....or make them rage more. You never know with mwo community.

 

I've been reading the Warrior trilogy again. Oh the pipe dreams.

 

Here!

Going balls deep in terms of physics is something I would love, but I'm sure a lot of people would hate; done right, it could be amazing. Making getting up a clumsy thing if you lose arms, for instance, would be interesting...but what if someone jumped on your leg(s)? What if losing an arm during a tight turn suddenly unbalanced your mech a little, making the turn a bit wobbly? These are things I think about, but they will never be in this game. There's just no way that PGI will manage it.

 

Again, this was one of the things that was done very wrong. For knockdown to be a viable thing, they need to code it right. Now, if you and a teammate run head on into one another at full speed, maybe it SHOULD have an effect...but light bumps, not at all. The problem with knockdown before was that it was way too sensitive, and it didn't really have any sort of recognition of how and where you were hit. Again...with proper physics, I would love it. The way it was before was junk.

 

In the latest NGNG Mechs Devs and Beer podcast Paul Inyou said that they are looking to significantly buff internal structure and component hit points as he is very disatisfied with TTK in MWO. So you can probably consider that fix "in the pipeline."

 

Problem with that argument is that at the speed of a FS9-A 82m (from memory 168m range on the SPL of the person I was ghosting last night) is nothing. Controlling range is the best asset of a light.

 

Joy, do these idiots not play lights at all.

 

What about a different approach. Time to kill increased with the introduction of the clan mechs.
Testing proved that Inner Sphere mechs were outgunned in 12v12 combat. The step to balance
was major overhaul of IS damage output and survivability >> the quirks. The most "successful"
quirks vastly improved the DPS ability of the former outgunned. Most of you/us would agree
that clan mechs are still superior, although not as they used to be.

Now instead to quadruple table top armour points, which I agree would hit lights and most mediums
utterly from the competitive point of view, may debuff the clans by lowering their DPS abililty to a
certain point. Not by lowering weapon damage, but increasing their cooldown.

Didn't thought fully through it, but at the first impressions, clans would still have the range and alpha
advantage, heat management would get alot easier - don't know if good/bad yet - but if they had to
wait some time longer for their weapons to recharge their brawling ability may be set off in the
advantage for IS mechs. So clans would still excel at longe range where IS would probably
be better knife fighters. Could be a point to discuss (or discard).

 

As someone who plays clan mechs and inner sphere I really don't see the utter superiority everyone else does after the energy heat nerfs and jump jet stuff.

I mean they do have advantages but Its far from an automatic win.

I cringe as much walking into an Orion's AC20/SRM's as I do walking into a Mad Cat's lasers; I don't think 'phew its inner sphere' or 'Egads ! A clanner!'

Of course timber is faster and more versatile. Orion should be more rugged ...

And lights shouldn't be able to quickly leg and destroy assaults it should take a crapload of firepower to bring them down. And even if armor is doubled ... Embers and Oxides will still easily solo Most assaults they come across... Okay it'll take longer, that's the point.

You'll also be tougher and not vaped so quickly if you slip up.

People will hopefully have to tweak builds for better CE and bring more ammo.

 

So double armour for Orions only?

TBR lasers do reach much further than the Orion brawler loadout. And
the Orion couldn't even mount the same engine size, means if a TBR
want's to keep heavy IS mechs at range, he usually could (on 1v1).

However you're right, clanners are not utterly superior anymore, but I'm
playing clans and inner sphere too, but there still is a certain difference.
Thing is not every clan mech is OP ... and not every IS one is undergunned.

As much as you I would like most battles to last longer or be more forgiving
when coming around the wrong corner. Still I might think that doubling armour
will bring a new set of imbalances with it. Utmost probably same would go for
extending cooldown for clan weapons (to e.g. MLX, IFR).

 

Not that it would be doubled but even if armor was doubled, with focus fire now and death balls I don't know if we'd all notice a huge difference.

I actually think PGI will do something good.

 

Nope, disagree

It's not easy to leg assaults right now unless you're in a wolf pack. If you nerf lights even more, nobody will play them anymore, they're around 6-10% right now. Also, the commando will be total shit (never ever enough ammo for anything) and all the other srm lights too.

 

I said double health, armor, and ammo. So the only thing that would change is how fast heat plays in.

 

The play style changed in a way I don't like, after clans and IS quirks.
Tanking is very limited, and the assaults have turned into high alpha death machines.

I felt much more "assaultish" before these changes, when I could drive my Stalker 3F leading a push and tanking a lots of damage, still standing with 10% health in the end and only the CT, the head, and the legs. When my superior heat eff. meant something compared to other assaults, and with 2 LLs, 4Mlas and SRM12 I could bring some fear in the enemy lines. If I do this now, I'm dead in no time.

I miss the times where an Atlas felt like a mountain to take down, and he could turn around a game with a good push.
Now if other 2 clan assaults are around it is dead in what, 5 seconds?

The game is more fresh with all the changes, but, to me, it's worse overall.

Double armor for IS and armor x1.5 for clans, remove all the quirks and taa-daa. Tests and then the 1.5 value could be adjusted. Instead, a huge work of quirkening any mech. IS are cooler by nature so their sustained paired with more armor would be perfect match for hotter but higher firepower clanners. Might look unbalanced now, but if you think at IS weapons you will realize this would have been an elegant and simple solution.

 

Sorry, I should have mentioned this as well, but Paul did voice the concern regarding ammo based mechs with a buff to structure. He said to roll out a plan like that they would also have to double ammo counts or something to keep those mechs competitive.

If these new plans end up being implemented I wonder what the new 1000+ damage clubs will be...