How to make rocket 20's work

Thread in 'MechWarrior Online' started by Ragnahawk, Jul 25, 2017.

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  1. Solahma

    Solahma Star Lord

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    I played a lot of RL on the PTS. It was broken and stupid. The 50m min range pretty much solved the issue with the weapon. The spread from 50m is very large, and that's good. Far more preferable than a mech jumping up your butt with 200 damage within 0.5s.

    I tried the same RL120+UAC10+ML BSW build I used on the PTS. With the 50m range you really have to hold onto the RL until: A) You might lose them due to damage B) the perfect opportunity where you can get as close to 50m as possible (give yourself a little extra because range within ~1-5m can vary due to weapon placement in 3D space).

    The build performed well, but it certainly not the YOLO gimmick that it was on the PTS because of that min-range.
    It was a good move by PGI, because RL would have been plain stupid otherwise.

    I took the BSW RL120 build into testing ground to see just how much spread you get at ~50m. Against the back of a CTF, aiming Center Mass, will still one-hit the mech. But it does spread damage ALL across center mass, much like a blob of MRMs at range.

    For mechs using it as *less* of a gimmick, you probably want to use them as an early extra damage just to get a slight advantage over the enemy in a brawl. That extra efficient tonnage damage might be enough for you to secure a 1v1. However, the reduction in overall effectiveness due to the min. range makes it unreliable as a back-up CQC weapon for ranged builds. It's a force multiplier now.

    Something like this is now a more preferable alternative:
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
  2. Ragnahawk

    Ragnahawk Well-Known Member

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    But I mean, I like having rocket 20s shoved up my butt if they manage to sneak up behind me. No really. If someone is brave enough to only take out me as an assassin I'll o7 them.
    |
    This is coming from the guy who runs a phoenix hawk 2 with 6 MPLas and kills half the enemy team from behind.

    It's just like Long Tom. That cannon was beautiful. A work of art. It was taken away completely.
     
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  3. Solahma

    Solahma Star Lord

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    Saying that is one thing, but trust me when I say it would be pretty damn stupid to have your ASSAULT mech one shot by a RL120 BSW, then that BSW can continue on with a UAC10 and ML.

    Do you understand? It doesn't matter that you think they "deserve" the kill if they can get behind you. Having your *insert any mech in the game* one-shot is not a fun time. The DireStar at least get's one opportunity, and it's not a mech that can sneak up behind you. I'm talking about mechs half that size, twice the speed. PLUS being able to continue fighting effectively afterward.

    No, pls, it was stupid. Make a weapon THAT effective and you see more of them. And it would be cancer for this game.
     
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  4. Ragnahawk

    Ragnahawk Well-Known Member

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    Okay so here's a theory I have. 4 Rocket 20s right? If you fire 4 of them from 50 m on any mech that is standing perfecting still it should give you at least that kill. That's reasonable to ask right? I'm saying that because 4 hardpoints is a lot!
     
  5. Solahma

    Solahma Star Lord

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    And yet only 6t for an insta-kill

    Yeah, no thanks

    4xRL20 might be enough, as-is, to one hit some mechs, or at the very least extremely damage them.

    The weapon isn't meant to be a OHK Yolo gun. It's a supplementary low-tonnage, high alpha weapon that will fit well as a FORCE MULTIPLIER.

    We don't need it as a viable Gimmick in this game. I'm all for gimmicks. I run some silly and stupid stuff. And I was EXTREMELY opposed to RL being added.
     
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  6. Ragnahawk

    Ragnahawk Well-Known Member

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    6 medium lasers is 30 damage. I can fire twice in 6-7 seconds. Thats 60 damage. If your running a direwolf with no back armor thats 62 points I have to burn through. If 4 rocket 20s could be fired at in 6-8 seconds, the only trade off would be that you don't expend much heat for it, but you lose your weapon after firing unlike the medium laser.
    This isn't even accounting for quirks, which slim down the cooldown.
     
  7. Ragnahawk

    Ragnahawk Well-Known Member

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    There's your 6 tons. Which you don't need to stand literally 50 m to get them all to hit, and only work on big targets.
     
  8. Excalibaard

    Excalibaard 101 010 Staff Member

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    alphaing twice isn't -instakilling- though, which is the biggest problem of RLs the way you propose them.

    I'm siding with Solahma here, though a little reduced spread, or the minimum range at 40m would be nice, so at least they feel as powerful as they look.
     
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  9. Ragnahawk

    Ragnahawk Well-Known Member

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    6 MLas Alpha striking twice. 7-8 seconds. Can do 60 damage to the rear from 270 m.

    4x Rocket 20 with duration of 7-8 seconds. Can't even do 60 damage to rear, even from point blank. Breaks after use.

    >_>

    Not to mention its a missile weapon, and SRMs are well known for having higher damage.
     
  10. Ragnahawk

    Ragnahawk Well-Known Member

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    Right now the rocket duration is 1 second. All you do is double the duration and by the time you've fired all rocket 20s you have done the same damage as 6 medium lasers in the same time.
     
  11. Excalibaard

    Excalibaard 101 010 Staff Member

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    ML and RL20 aren't even remotely similar weapon types. And in what realistic scenario is someone standing still for 7-8 seconds? You'regrasping for straws here.

    ML: focused beam, high heat, no ammo
    RL: spread damage, low heat, one-shot.

    I'm not sure what you're on about with rocket 'duration', but the whole point of RLs is that they're single fire burst. Not DPS. Using them as a DPS weapon in your calculation is obviously skewing it in favor of other weapons.

    1xRL20 deals 35 spread damage in 0 seconds. 1xML deals 5 'focused' damage in 0.9 seconds (depending on target movement. I can also make skewed comparisons ^^
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
    Solahma likes this.
  12. Gasboy

    Gasboy Advanced Member

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    4xRL20 is 40 heat. Firing 6xML is also 40 heat. However, once you've blown your RL load, you probably don't have to worry about heat. If you want to continue being effective running 6xML, you need to take that heat into consideration, so likely you've specced into the skill tree to deal with heat, and you may have coolshots, and you probably added extra heat sinks. 6xML is not just 6 crit slots and 6 tons. RL offers you an incredible deal, once. That's all they were ever meant to do. Boating them is a bad idea, and they are not perfect weapons. You want something to deal with situations better? Take SRMs or MRMs or a different build.

    Stop trying to make the weapon do things it wasn't meant to do. They are good the way they are.

    If YOU are having difficulty with them, that's YOUR issue, not the weapon's. Because other people are having decent success with them.
     
  13. Ragnahawk

    Ragnahawk Well-Known Member

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    That's how you wanna act when someone debates with you? You tell them to shut up? I respect your opinion and I also have my own. So do others in this community. Maybe I am a 1 percenter, but I'm entitled to my opinion just like you are entitled to yours. Now trying to debate your point is fine. Thats better then telling me to stop. So please control yourself. State your reasoning, math ect. and be happy that i listened at least.
     
  14. Ragnahawk

    Ragnahawk Well-Known Member

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    I might even agree with you over time. But giving me the middle finger offering my opinion is the wrong answer.
     
  15. Ragnahawk

    Ragnahawk Well-Known Member

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    Feel free to continue by all means. Don't mind what I said. You guys have some good points. Just be respectful about it.
     
  16. Ragnahawk

    Ragnahawk Well-Known Member

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    What i meant by rocket duration is that they have a duration of 1 second. Increase that to 2 seconds and you have to chainfire for 8 seconds in order to do the full damage of 4 rocket 20s. That should be easily torso twisted the same way you would twist after taking a 6 medium laser alpha to the back.

    (Same killing power also.)

    What i would suggest to pgi is that they make the damage tighter to match 6 medium lasers fired 2 times.
     
  17. Ragnahawk

    Ragnahawk Well-Known Member

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    You have to chain fire rockets as they are linked on heat.
     
  18. Excalibaard

    Excalibaard 101 010 Staff Member

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    You don't 'have to'. Fire them all at the same time for 40 heat (instead of 20); 40 heat equals 2 salvos of MLs. Also, whether the firing lasts a second or not, as long as you take 0.5 seconds to fire in between shots they will not have ghost heat.
     
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  19. Ruludos

    Ruludos Benefactor

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    >started this thread with a shitpost
    >demands mathmatical proof

    I'll admit I haven't read the forum rules very well but I'm pretty sure a quintuple (!) post is against them.
     
  20. The Verge

    The Verge Moderator Staff Member

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    This is just a reminder, to inform everyone here that even if you post multiple times, as long as you say something different and constructive, your good to go. Insults will result in warnings on your account.

    This thread has been fairly well behaved, so keep that up! :thumbsup:
     
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