How to make rocket 20's work

Thread in 'MechWarrior Online' started by Ragnahawk, Jul 25, 2017.

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  1. Solahma

    Solahma Star Lord

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    so... you want a RL80 that has a 7-8 second stream that hits exactly where your cursor is without spreading?

    I really don't understand what you're after at this point. We've spelled out the value of RL and justified its place in the game. You're asking for a completely different mechanic if you're not flat-out asking for RL to be one hit wonder weapons capable of taking out any mech in one salvo at a reasonable range. I've explained why that's a terrible idea.

    You're also throwing random values into the mix in an effort to compare RL to ML, simply because they weight the same. That's not how this works. A RL impact is instantaneous. Firing 4xRL20 with stagger firing will impact the target 0.5s apart. not 1 second each. Not 7-8 seconds total. Those values are arbitrary.
     
  2. Ragnahawk

    Ragnahawk Well-Known Member

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    4 rocket 20s would do about
    Posting MLP and Brony related images. Bwhahaha XD Dying. That's a rule.
     
  3. Ragnahawk

    Ragnahawk Well-Known Member

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    No, not fire them all at once. I think PGI should lock the weapon like gauss and force you to wait 8 seconds (if you have 4 rocket 20's). The reason I'm comparing MLas, is I don't think it should be more effective in terms of pinpoint damage than rockets which are one use. I should be jumping out of my seat if a mech shoots me with a salvo of one shot rockets. Otherwise I'm just going to be like - "PFFT! You thought you were going to finish me off with a feather gun?" and then I would kill them with my 6 MPLas, like I've always been able to, except they'd be a little bit screwed now. I'm at the point right now where MRMs are more useful at close range than rockets.

    ^
    The rocket 80 would only do about 55-60 pinpoint damage. Way more than 10 damage to every component on the enemy mech from literally 50 m.
     
  4. Solahma

    Solahma Star Lord

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    You're putting far too much value into "one shot" nature of RL. For the tonnage, it is the most damage you can deal from any weapon in the game. You are more scared of MRMs hitting you, AND YOU SHOULD. An MRM20 weighs FIVE TIMES as much as a RL20, before even adding ammo. OF COURSE it's going to be better.

    You won't find any sense of balance for a video game if you make this comparisons because you want a weapon to perform a certain way for personal whims and desires.

    The bottom line is: If they reduced the spread or min-range considerably, you'd hurt gameplay.

    Right now, it's not HURTING gameplay by having a low-cost, high-damage SUPPLEMENTARY weapon. It has it's place, and giving it this special role you're describing would be broken and unfun for anyone on the receiving end. Okay, maybe you will give them the o7 for the kill. But OHK (one-hit-kills) are inherently anti-fun in video games. Especially one that is typically slow moving like MWO. It has no place in the game and should be eliminated wherever possible. Of course some builds can and will OHK mechs, but they pay CONSIDERABLY more for the ability to do so. Not to mention most extremely high alpha builds have drawbacks like: beam duration, spread, and heat issues to be viable in other combat situations.
     
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  5. Ragnahawk

    Ragnahawk Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't a OHK weapon be better suited for a weapon that has the biggest draw back? Losing the weapon? When you have to run at least 4 of them to achieve this kind of power? I mean I could easily run around with a hellbringer with two heavy large and 6 medium lasers and one shot things. OHK's aren't exactly some sacred, special thing in MWO. Especially from the back of a mech, which is what I mean be being able to kill for that kind of commitment to hardpoints.
     
  6. Solahma

    Solahma Star Lord

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    NO because you're lowering the "entry cost" for the capability of dealing that amount of damage to that of a light mech. Anything larger can still take normal weapons as well!

    Easily? I do not think that word means what you think it means. A OHK achieved with that would require A LOT more skill, positioning, and/or misplay by your opponent. If they don't twist it off or deal with the build correctly, that's on them.

    THAT is the name of the game in MWO. Not running across the map at 100+KPH screaming "YOLO", circle behind the first mech you see, then end his match then running around like a panzy without any weapons (because you're a OHK troll after all). Not to mention, I guarantee many players would just go shutdown their mech after doing so (mah kdr!) further diminishing match quality.

    you REAAAAALLY think that sounds preferable?

    They are not sacred. As stated before, they are typically a result of something GOOD you did to get the shot or something BAD your enemy did to have it happen to them. It doesn't happen every time you shoot a mech, the right opportunity has to present itself. With OHK RLololol I know that I will be able to OHK one mech every match (working as you'd like).

    Not to mention that you continuously ignore the actual requirements to OHK a mech otherwise. To do so requires a lot of tonnage worth of weapons to accomplish, while also worrying about armor, speed, heatsinks, etc. The faster you are in a mech, the less tonnage you have to spend on something that can get anywhere near enough damage to OHK something.

    The closes thing I can think of is the JR7-IIC w/ 6xSRM6. It CAN OHK mechs from behind. It's not guaranteed and you have to get a bit lucky with the spread. This mech/build alone required PGI to find a solution to it's ability to OHK mechs from behind easily, while being fast enough to get in and out to do so (thanks Writhenn....).
     
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  7. Tarriss Halcyon

    Tarriss Halcyon Active Member

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    Also; look at PPC boating. I don't mean Dire Star; I mean even earlier, back to the old HexaPPC Stalker days. They weren't one-shotting anything heavier than a Cicada very often. But they were unhealthy for the game overall. They are one of the key reasons Ghost Heat was created. Because yes, ghost heat is inherently a tool to try to increase TTK.

    Splatcats could one-shot lights, but let's be realistic here, lots of mechs can one-shot light mechs.

    Look at the dual Gauss firing restriction. Quad Gauss was something that they never even let into the game; because a pinpoint attack with the fastest projectiles in the game that generated no heat would basically come close to the one-shot-kill.

    Notice something? Aside for the Splatter-IIC; none of these are fast mechs. They get their one-shot kills from enemies playing badly, or from precision accuracy. Not a "PRESS HERE FOR FREE KILL" button. The way you seem to be proposing to alter Rockets leads more towards the latter; and while there is some skill in maneuvering mechs to get that kind of kill; it's nowhere near as much as you need for precision shooting.

    Rocket Launchers are meant to be inferior for a sustained battle, and they aren't really meant to be all that well put-together either. They are Periphery weapons. You can't expect these things to fire with the spread of a well-maintained SRM4. A wide spread, and a minimum arming range (Even in the Periphery, they don't want you shooting explosives into a wall at five meters and causing serious damage to yourself) make perfect logical sense.

    I'm with Solahma and Excalibaard here. Rocket Launchers are fine damage-wise. If they do ever get buffed; it might be a microscopic spread alteration, or potentially alterations to that minimum range; but nothing that would allow them to threaten the one-tap kill. This isn't CS:GO, Call of Duty or any other first-person shooter. This is a game that is much about strategy and tactics as it is about shooting targets. Rocket Launchers are not your AWP.
     
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  8. Gasboy

    Gasboy Advanced Member

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    Where did I tell you to shut up?

    I said to stop trying to make a weapon do something it's not really meant to do.
     
  9. Ragnahawk

    Ragnahawk Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. I'm pretty sure it will happen. Whether you mention it or not. Mute point.

    It doesn't take any skill to line up 4 rocket 20s and shoot them into an enemy assault mechs back?? Hello? Stream of 4 rocket 20s? Ghost heat? They are all linked. (You won't get the kill, you won't. Not as they are now. Spread is too bad.)

    You mean like standing still in a assault mech? That's what I've been telling you. If the dude don't torso twist or anything, you should be given the kill. (Your paying for it with 1 use weapons)
    If the weapons were linked like gauss, to one rocket at a time (or high ghost heat) - AKA 4 rocket 20's over 6-7 seconds (That's if you chainfired. This doesn't mean you won't be able to burst fire that one rocket 20 in your shoulder.) then you end up not wasting a hard point with spread so bad that the bread spreads the butter.
    It has one use. That one moment where you just use it as curve ball. It already doesn't fill that role. Maybe it does for you, but for me... your wasting your time telling me that they are already fine on damage. To me they are not. You can't force my opinion. I'm not a robot that you can just reprogram. To me - I see the damage as just a number. It just isn't as rewarding as it looks on paper to actually use.






    Well its that's the issue maybe if you read what I've been trying to say.... (ghost heat, locked weapons, longer time to fire multiple rockets = for better spread)

    Those were all ridiculous, but there's one thing your pushing off. Out of all those builds, none of them aside from the direstar were effectively neutralized after one shot for boating a metric something of them. OHK isn't even the issue. You can put counter balances in place to prevent that like I've been trying to suggest tirelessly. I gotta put up a counter argument to 3 people at once that can't seem to think outside of their box, and only want to hear what they want to hear. Then I have to go back reexplain the same idea 3 more times. Look. The issue is spread. Spread, which is bad. You should be able to hit with a 1 use weapon. Otherwise you basically just wasted a hard point, tonnage on something you could have use for other things. Like 6 medium lasers. Why am I struggling to outdo some weeaboo 6 medium laser build that I know I can do 5x better in even in a 1v1? It shouldn't be the case. Both builds should have an equal chance at winning the 1v1, maybe even the rockets having a slight advantage.

    Hey if they increase the minimum range to 200 m, and decrease the spread even slightly that would make me happy. I just don't want to waste a mech or see others waste a mech.

    OHK is not the intent. I'm just not fine with the spread. I don't know know why you aren't, but I guess your happy with a 1 time pea shooter that feathers enemies to death (my opinion). Me personally. I'm going to stick to my lasers. You can go waste your matches (my opinion). I'll just watch from a distance, while the meta tier ego lords scream at you for running a dead weapon (my opinion). There's nothing left to debate. You've already picked a "side", and I will remain that guy. I'm not exactly the type to side with the winning side just because of numbers. So just let me be cus I'm done debating this.
     
  10. Ragnahawk

    Ragnahawk Well-Known Member

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    What is the intent of telling me to stop then if it wasn't to shut up? I don't read the words, I read the meaning behind them.
     
  11. Tarriss Halcyon

    Tarriss Halcyon Active Member

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    Ragna; I will be honest here. You are the ONLY person here that wants to see Rocket Launcher boats have an advantage in a 1v1. Also; not be able to hit with them? It's fairly easy to hit with RLs; just not in a light's duel. They aren't a waste of a mech. People used to say "it's a waste of a mech" when people brought Flamers to the battlefield. And NOBODY here is advocating boating RLs.

    Am I fine with the spread? Not really; no. I'd like the spread tightened a little. But right now, if you are saying they're impossible to hit with, my personal experience and yours differ. Every time I've used RLs, I've landed the full amount of missiles. And I'm doing that with between 210 and 480 ping; depending on the server. My opinion; they're decent as they are.

    Rocket launchers are not a replacement for medium lasers. They are not intended to be a replacement for medium lasers. You are comparing apples to oranges. If you'd been comparing them to; say, SRMs, then maybe you'd have a point. SRMs have the potential for more damage; and in a fight between an SRM mech and a RL carrier; my money would be on the SRMs in the long run, depending on where the RLs hit.

    Also, meta ego lords already shout at me for using dead things. Dead mechs; bad builds, things that aren't meta in general. I'm still a tier 2/3 player, and I still enjoy the game. If you are going to be so high-and-mighty because people see things differently to you; even after we have highlighted that what you are asking for has the potential to break the system altogether (Tighter spread = more damage on a single component = more likely to kill = more likely to be boated for the troll OHK) than we shall just have to agree to disagree, somebody close the thread so the "argument" ends.
     
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  12. Excalibaard

    Excalibaard 101 010 Staff Member

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    Since both sides are apparently done talking on the subject of Rocket Launchers and we're veering further off towards personal attacks, I'm closing the thread before I'm gonna have to warn somebody.
     
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