After reviewing coming updates... Clans don't get some cool stuff?

Discussion in 'General MWO Discussion' started by Joe Bopper, Mar 16, 2017.

  1. Joe Bopper

    Joe Bopper Well-Known Member

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    https://mwomercs.com/civil-war-update

    Look at those IS additions. Hot damn. Stealth armor - what we have been waiting for! But wait... No stealth armor for my clan mechs? Are you kidding me? I don't see any stealth armor under the clan additions - but hey, at least the clans have light tags, light machineguns, and even hotter lasers!

    IS got MRM while Clan got ATM... thats fine.

    The IS ACs were OP already, now you're going to have IS UAC2s, 10s, 20s? Holy hell get ready.

    Clan mechs run incredibly hot for no reason and already have added extra heat boosts which don't apply to IS. Why anyone would arm their already hot Hellbringer or other clan mech with say a laser AMS and heavy lasers is beyond me.

    I thought according to lore Clan mechs were supposed to be better? A clan mech may have better numbers on paper but if you balance and nerf the heck out of it, and give IS better weapons they aren't superior anymore, are they?

    Thoughts?

    TL;DR - IS got a lot more new things than clans did and clan mechs might be at a huge disadvantage now.
     
  2. skribs

    skribs Legendary Member

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    In most cases clan weapons are theoretically better, just in terms of pure numbers. Their auto-cannons are burst-fire because they weigh less, consume less slots (except for AC2s), and with omnipods it's easier to boat them.

    Clan lasers generate more heat, but also do more damage and usually have greater range. Clan small lasers are almost on par with IS mediums in performance, for example. So you still have the weight savings there.

    Clan get a lot less than IS, and that makes sense to me. Clan tech is already stronger, they don't need as much love.

    IS UACs, LBXs, and SSRMs are overdue, IMHO (especially SSRM4 and 6, maybe LB20 and UAC10 as big points for me). Those are just to catch IS up to Clan tech. MRM and ATM are somewhat similar. IS are getting more in terms of PPCs and alternate versions of ballistics (I don't think LGR and HGR are going to clans), but both are getting Laser AMS and a few others. IS now have 3 engine choices instead of 2, but the Light and XL engines are both inferior to the Clan XL engine in one way or another.

    We may see a period of imablance, but I imagine there will be a quirk pass before, during, or shortly after the tech is released to make sure that they stay pretty close. In lore, I believe it was 5-on-12 for clan-vs-IS battles, so the fact you can have 12-on-12 in FW or that clan is equal in value to IS mechs of the same weight in quick play means that you have to balance it different than tabletop. Unless they can make it specifically clan-vs.-IS and find a way to make it 5-on-12 (in which case, clans enjoy your 20-minute queue times and IS enjoy your 0.4 KDR) or if they can make it so that Battle Value is a relevant stat for matchmaking, then IS should be roughly equal to clan in MWO.
     
  3. Shock

    Shock Benefactor

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    It was more like 10 vs 12 was balanced in tabletop. Clan tech doesn't make mechs more than twice as good. Inner Sphere is getting more upgrades because they were behind.

    I'm not sure where Joe is getting the idea that IS ACs are currently too good. The fact that they're bigger and heavier than clan ACs more than balances them out. IS UAC5s are more than 25% heavier. IS LBX ACs will certainly still be inferior to the clan models.
     
  4. skribs

    skribs Legendary Member

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    Pinpoint alpha and how much easier it is to get full damage on a single component.
     
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  5. Shock

    Shock Benefactor

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    I'll agree that all other things being equal, the IS single round ACs are better. But there's a cost in terms of tonnage and slots. If they go with the tabletop values, an IS UAC20 is going to be 3 tons more than the clan version. That's a significant increase
     
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  6. Joe Bopper

    Joe Bopper Well-Known Member

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    What about 'Heavy' variants of weapons that IS gets but clans don't such as gauss and ppc? What about Rotary ACs? Rocket launchers? Target computers? Light engines? Stealth armor?
    Clans are not better mechs anymore, apparently

    And also, sure they weigh more but regarding IS ACs, their weight is totally separate from their performance in game. They are pretty op

    If clan is supposed to dominate IS lore-wise... then where are these weapons or abilities in game? They run too hot and as of now seem to have no particular advantage besides laser range and damage and certain things weighing less (but this is at the cost of heat spikes which IS doesn't have) and also they decreased health of clan gauss rifle for no apparent reason
     
  7. Shock

    Shock Benefactor

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    A weapon's weight is not separate from it's ingame performance. When I can have 4 clan UAC5s for only 1 ton more than 3 IS UAC5s, that's an impact. for the weight of an IS Gauss rifle, I can have a clan Gauss plus 2 ERML and a DHS. That's significant. You can't just compare weapons one for one in a vacuum.
     
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  8. Joe Bopper

    Joe Bopper Well-Known Member

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    Look at the Mauler for example. If you have the tonnage for 4 or 6 IS AC5s its pretty OP
     
  9. Shock

    Shock Benefactor

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    Eh, I don't see Maulers dominating the battlefield. They're not even a common sight. In contrast, I am beyond sick of seeing Clan Gauss/PPC combos. There's at least a couple in every drop.
     
  10. Joe Bopper

    Joe Bopper Well-Known Member

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    So you don't think clans should get stealth armor?
     
  11. Shock

    Shock Benefactor

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    By lore, Clans didn't have the tech. And their fighting preference is supposed to be completely opposed to using stealth. So on those counts I'd say no.

    For balance, I have no idea. Without any details, I couldn't say if I think it's going to be good or not.
     
  12. Joe Bopper

    Joe Bopper Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for this, I forgot the philosophy of clans. I still think clanners are missing out on some cool stuff
     
  13. Azakael

    Azakael Advanced Member

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    - Heavy Gauss, later in the timeline Clans get Hyper Assault Gauss, so... that's a thing. That said... 11 Crit spaces and 18 TONS. On top of that, it carries half the ammo as a standard gauss. Plus damage drop off at each range bracket.
    - Heavy PPC. Clan already have a heavy PPC, it's called Clan ER PPC. No. Seriously. That's the truth. Same heat and damage in TT, with almost half the weight and crit spaces. Oh, and better range. So, why the fuck would clan want the heavy PPC?
    - Rotary AC. Not in the timeline yet for Clammers.
    - Rocket Launchers? I have no clue how this could even be *considered* useful. One shot weapon that takes up a hard point? *Maybe*? I don't know.
    - TC. Clan TCs are still lighter.
    - Light Engines. Clan XL still superior. Better weight savings than the LFE. So IS can either get a little more survivability, or better weight. Clan got both already.
    - Stealth armor. Situationally useful, really. Not sure how it will work in MWO.

    That's the thing. After the clan loss on Tukayyid, the "Clan Domination of the Lesser Inner Sphere" really started to balance out some. A lot of that was that up to the Fed Com civil war, the Clans really had no impetus to improve their technology. Meanwhile, the Inner Sphere was like, "HOLY SHIT, CLAMMERS!" and started pumping out research like a madperson, trying to find *the* tool to break the clan technological domination. And in some cases, they succeeded. On top of that, they no longer had ComStar deliberately hurting tech research... The Clans, however, really didn't innovate much further in weapons tech until after the Second Star League's Trial of Refusal of the entire Clan Invasion, and their subsequent (*successful*) Trial of Annihilation of Smoke Jaguar.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
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  14. skribs

    skribs Legendary Member

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    Yeah, but IS miss out on a lot, too.

    • I can build a 4xLRM15 Awesome 8R, or do the same thing with more short-range firepower in a Mad Dog.
    • Try finding an IS Mech that can energy boat an alpha like you can put onto a Nova or Stormcrow, at that speed.
    • I can run an adder with a similar build I can run on a Dragon
    • I can run a Mad Dog with the same build as a Catapult A1 (same weight), except with more lasers
    Basically, because of the weight differences and in a lot of cases omni-pods, you can make a Clan Mech with a lot of firepower. So yeah, if they don't get stealth armor I'm not going to lose a lot of sleep when your 30-ton lights with ECM and JJ are a Spider 5D or an Arctic Cheetah.
     
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  15. Aramuside

    Aramuside Well-Known Member

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    ATM's look insanely good in the MWO environment as they probably won't need multiple ammo types...
     
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