post quirk pass 2 update (december 12th 2014): The AC/2 quirk has been removed. Main consequences 1/ the reduced rate of fire and 2/ the increased heat. It's still viable, but if you're looking for performance please buy a -1N and build it with 2 AC/5s. Since the mech is hot again, too hot for a constant use of lasers, it's time to return to the "smoke and thunder" conf, relying on AC exclusively for damage, with flamer for grieffing and badassery. post quirk update (november 12th 2014): (dec 2014 note: it's still viable that way, but beware there is no more heat generation quirk) OK, the quirks made the triple dakka viable again, but kinda made this old design obsolete. The -25% on heat generation has a HUGE influence on this used-to-be-hot weapon system: - first, there is no need for a massive emphasis on heat dissipation, three AC/2s are perfectly viable with the ten engine heat sinks; - second, more than that, the heat generation is so low the use of MLas as secondary weapons does not affect your primary rate of fire anymore (not significantly anyway). Thus: - removing DHS freed enough slots for an armor upgrade, freeing even more tonnage for an engine upgrade; - the old design didn't used MLas because it wasn't compatible with prolonged AC bursts (and brought the flamer as grieffing tool), but not anymore, so the MLas are back - alt variaant still doable for the flamer nostalgics; - and I added one more ton of ammo because fuck it, there's no such thing as too much dakka. Video of the updated build (recorded november 11th): ********* /!\ bellow this point all builds are obsolete /!\ (but kept for the record) ********* Spoiler: obsolete builds or with one less DHS and bigger engine (I'm still not sure what's the best) Edit: "ammo" variant Basically it's an Eternal Dakka, but tweaked to fit my style. It's not an easy build to optimize, it's very demanding in ammo and heat sinks, but also requires to be fast. Armor is almost maxed; I know it's a support mech, supposed to stay behind, but you still need to expose yourself in order to deal damage. I'm not really comfortable with glass canons anyway. If necessary the left arm can be used as a shield (even if it's lightly armored) but you'll die (or be useless) from the destruction of any other part. It's heavily ammo dependant and need to store a lot of it; there is no safe location for it, just hope it does not explode. I disposed the DHS in the right arm to crit pad and protect the guns, but it's not significant protection - just better to lose a DHS rather than a gun, even if it will be destroyed soon anyway if you're cored. Why the flamer instead of the ML(s)? First of all, because flamer is badass. And a dragon that does not breath fire is just half a dragon, isn't it? Honestly, it's the main reason and I don't need more. But if you're min/maxer to the bones and need a proper reason, I've got one: I wasn't using the MLs a lot anyway. The primary weapon is the AC, you need them to fire as much as possible, I felt like every time I fired my MLs I built heat that was as many AC shots I won't be able to fire (*). Then it was mostly backup weapon when my arm was destroyed - as for being useless, better being badass and smoky. (*) and that intuitive though is not that stupid: AC/2's heat/damage ratio is indeed much lower than ML's (0.5 and 0.8, respectively). My main concern when optimizing this build was how much DHS were needed to cool-down the beast. There is no worst situation than when you're almost overheating and can't fire a single shot, and an enemy rushing you. So you need to be able to fire long bursts, ideally to be able to destroy your opponent without the need to decrease your rate of fire. And in long engagements, you need to cool-down fast, and not be immobilized too long (though it's a good moment to reposition yourself, even to engage flanking manoeuvres). You can see I'm very demanding in therm of heat-effisciency. You might want less. For example I have more DHS for my 3xAC/2s than IanSane for his 4xAC/2s jaggermech! I think it's due to my aggressive playstyle, and my tendency to fire long bursts instead of short pick-a-boo sniping. I hate how hot builds force me to disengage. My philosophy as a support mech is: as soon as your juggernauts have engage (and are taking fire!), you should be able to deal damage. It means: always be in position (=> fast) and ready to fire (=> heat-efficient). There's also the fact that you can't easily pick-a-boo with a Dragon: once you're expose, you'd better fire a lot. Anyway, that mech can fire between 31 (on tourmaline) and 46 times (on frozen city) before overheating, dealing between 186 and 276 damage respectively. It means in theory you can destroy everything without overheating (**). In real combat situation you might need to step back to cool down more than once, especially on hot maps, but it's viable even on hotter ones. It dissipates between 4.2 and 5.6 heat points per seconds, meaning the usual 10 seconds break allows you to return more or less at 50% heat or under. In short, you're quickly back to the fight! (**) Just for reference, destroying an Atlas from the front is approximately 160 damage points to deal (assuming you place everything on CT), that means approx 27 shots and 14 seconds of continuous fire. Pros: - high dps and disturbance, and decent mobility, making an excellent support/flanker mech; - effective at al range; - smoky and noisy and damn badass. Cons: - 100% ammo dependent; - all your weaponry in the right arm; - the arm position of the Dragon is very low, it forces you to expose yourself (more than on a jagermech for example). Modules I use on this mech: - advanced zoom - target info gathering (to quickly see the weak points) - coolshot - seismic sensor (not so much now it has been nerfed) Little gameplay video to show you how devastating it can be (though without looking that impressive during the game). (action starts at ~2'15") The flamer burst to the sky at the beginning is a ritual, it's a prayer to the Gods of thunder. Be sure to respect the tradition, for them to bring you their strength and not unleash their wrath on you. By piloting a Smoke & Thunder Dragon you're the hammer of Gods, be worthy of this great honor. http://i.imgur.com/B3t4haV.jpg http://i.imgur.com/LWurnTu.jpg PS: for those who don't want to use a flamer and/or don't like to be 100% ammo dependent, here's how I'd build an Eternal Dakka (3xAC/2s + 2xMLs) and here is the discussion thread. edit (15th december 2013): it's actually a different build, but since it has been discussed on this thread and I think it's a good variant I'll post it here as an alternative. It might not be intuitive, but the 2x AC/2s + AC/5 combo frees you some tonnage, so I was able to mount a bigger engine. Strychnine proposed a build with an XL280 and more ammo, but I think this one is already large. And of course, the UAC/5 version (proposed by Aylek). Devastating, but I personally hate the jam:
Generally spoken, those 3-AC2-builds of the 5N are the reason I am considering rebying that variant and I love your build on paper. In theory those 2 ML are there as some kind of backup in the Eernal Dakka build when the right arm is blown of, in case of low ammo or when stuck in an infight. Well, to be honest, these are all situations you don't want to be in with this thing anyway and hopefully it only occurs near the end of a round. The Flamer looks rather odd, but it's a very nice tool for disctracting opponents should you walk into one, especially when combined with the cockpit shake caused by the ACs. Another very good example for exactly this purpose can be found on Lan's Flamesaw, a seemingly odd build of the Ilya, but which proved to be very effective. As much as I like speedy Dragons, the XL280 seems to be a good engine for this build as speed is only needed for repositioning yourself here. You'd need an XL325-ish engine or bigger to be able to run away from danger, and that one definitely won't fit. Even when comparing your two builds presented I'd rather take the first version which allows to DAKKA for a little bit longer because of the better cooling efficiency. Oh, and DrKingSchultz is classy by the way. Respectful and always friendly, we're usually talking quite a bit when we happen to drop on the same map. It all begun more than half a year ago when I asked him where Django was, and he repeated: "He's unchained." Great mood throughout the match.
It's really interesting. I believe I have a second DRG-5N chassis so I'll be able to test it without disassembling my beloved smoky. More thoughts in a few days.
I re-bought the DRG-5N yesterday because I so much wanted to play that 2x AC2 + UAC5 build. Only to recognise that the 5N is one of the Dragons I only got basic skills on... so what. Man, what a beast... and what a blast to play. Cruising with 80+ kp/h and delivering a hell of dakka dakka while flanking enemies. The build I used was exactly the one from Oct 30th shown above. Great mech.
Looks like I forgot to post... I finally came back to the triple AC/2s, I find it much easier to use. In theory the UAC can be devastating, but I found myself jamming a lot. When I'm firing AC/2s it's so noisy I lose track on all my timing, I can't use that combo :/
So I took some liberties with this. I like the UAC5/AC2 combo, but the jamming was annoying me. So. http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=23&l=363a17df0d5cb70ce5dae65fb92fb1fa5c656d65
I like that. As I wrote about my SHD-2H build, two AC/2s and one AC/5 is a very good alternative to the triple AC/2. Even though you lose on DPS, you gain on heat efficiency, cockpit shaking, and sometime even tonnage.
Yeah the DPS loss is minor. Also, I'm not sure if it's just me, but have flamers received a buff? I generally can shutdown mechs with this now and get the kill. It's great!
Me too. I was running with 12 DHS, but only got 352 armor. Next tries will be +1t AC2 ammo instead of DHs #12.
Don't know, I usually kill them before they overheat (but if I remember correctly flamers were buffed a little few months ago - it still does not make them an efficient "heat weapon" in my opinion, I mostly use them as a griefing tool and for how bad-ass it makes you look) I edited the first post to include the AC/5+AC/2S version. I think Strychnine's build is too large on ammo, so I stripped one ton of AC/5 and mount a bigger engine (XL295). PS: Blagg, no flamer, are you out-of your mind?
OK, the quirks made the triple dakka viable again, but kinda made this old design obsolete. The -25% on heat generation has a HUGE influence on this used-to-be-hot weapon system: - first, there is no need for a massive emphasis on heat dissipation, three AC/2s are perfectly viable with the ten engine heat sinks; - second, more than that, the heat generation is so low the use of MLas as secondary weapons does not affect your primary rate of fire anymore (not significantly anyway). Thus: - removing DHS freed enough slots for an armor upgrade, freeing even more tonnage for an engine upgrade; - the old design didn't used MLas because it wasn't compatible with prolonged AC bursts (and brought the flamer as grieffing tool), but not anymore, so the MLas are back - alt variaant still doable for the flamer nostalgics; - and I added one more ton of ammo because fuck it, there's no such thing as too much dakka.
Just a cautionary note that the heat generation bonus is gone again: Additional Structure CT +24 Additional Structure RA +6 UAC/5 Cooldown +12.5% Ballistic Weapon Cooldown +12.5% Ballistic Weapon Velocity +15% Ballistic Weapon Range +15% Laser Duation -15% Energy Weapon Cooldown -15% Torso yaw speed +10%
Yeah, and the main quirk is not AC/2 anymore... I haven't tested yet how it behaves after the 2nd quirk passs. The heat probably won't be such an issue since the rate of fire has been reduced, but I'm a bit worried about the damage output.
It's still working: But: - the ACs rate of fire is slower than it used to be prior to second quirk pass. It makes it definitely inferior to the -1N. - it's hot, hotter than I thought. Actually I think I will return to my "smoke and thunder" conf, relying on AC exclusively for damage, with flamer for grieffing and badassery.
