Have Atlas pilots lost their minds or something?

A mech I used to cheer for makes me cringe now whenever I see it on my team. 9 times out of 10 they know 1 direction...forward straight into the enemy. It doesn't matter if its 10 or 50 of the enemy in a firing line there is something about the PUG Atlas that just makes them go "oh to hell with it" and charge in like morons. Don't get me wrong. There ARE amazing Atlas pilots, I know I've seen em, but I would say an EXTREMELY high percentage are clueless.

It actually amazes me how a mech that not only has the most armor but arguably the most firepower nearly always ends up at the bottom of the damage heap due to horrible tactics. I understand that it is attractive to new players but there HAS to be 1 or 2 veterans out there who aren't muppets the new guys can watch and learn from.

Two matches in a row tonight the Atlas DD, in my opinion the most fearsome mech in the game, got 75 damage or lower and died in the first couple minutes because they just go YOLO and charge right in.

My last match was a perfect example, frozen city night; A minute into the match our Jenner goes to TAP their base. We are lined up on the ridge with our backs to where Theta would be and facing EPS. We had a great position, solid lines with our flanks covered. Our Atlas goes "HEY they turned around lets rush over the ridge". 3 seconds later dead Atlas and 6 dead friendly mechs. At the very beginning of the match I made a point of gently reminding him that he isn't bullet proof and we would need his firepower later in the fight.

His defense was "the enemy had turned around to face the Jenner" and my response was ""
I don't know bout you folks but I can turn my mech 360 in about 2 seconds or MAYBE 3 or 4 in an assault.

The enemy did exactly what I expected they would, they did an about face and promptly focused our mechs while they were exposed coming over the ridge and killed 7 of them in less time than it took to type this sentence...and I type around 70 words a minute.

heres how I rank the assaults now when I see them on my team.

Atlas - Likely a clueless muppet who bought his mech because it looked cool and doesn't have a clue how to drive it and will likely drag his entire team into death valley. (like going right up the middle on the canyon map). Amazing firepower and armor but likely to die in the first 2 minutes because they assume their armor will win the day and forget things like torso twisting. Their arrogance makes them even more dangerous to their team than the enemy since new players will immediately flock to the Atlas and generally follow them into situations they can't possibly survive.

Stalker - Prefers function over form, the mechs not pretty but most of the time they produce decent damage and play smart. Not very tanky but at least they make an effort to stay alive and in the fight.

Highlander/Viktor - Good firepower but you can't rely on them at all to play tank or push a fight since most of them like to sit back and play a certain tasty toaster pastry. With them on your team though you generally get a lot of firepower as long as you know that they aren't likely going to be on front lines taking the hits.

Awesome/Battlemaster - well they aren't really assaults are they. They are more like souped up heavies. Good to great firepower but horrendous armor and the chances of them surviving at the front of a push are slim to none unless they have a huge party backing them up.

Am I wrong? I would love to hear your stories or arguments.

 

I, too, noticed that Atlas pilots tend to be particularly stupid. Atlases seem to correlate slightly with loss rate, though I don't have enough data for statistical significance yet.

I think I know why. People think that the Atlas is supposed to be the tank of the group. They think that the Atlas can soak up damage while their team kills the enemy. Of course, this doesn't work. Even if they had all their armor in front, and the enemies only shot the center torso, they'd still only have 124 armor. If all 12 enemies shot them with only 2 medium lasers each it would take just over 1 alpha strike to kill the Atlas. An Ilya with 3x UAC/5 and 3x Medium Lasers can go through that alone in about 8-10 seconds. And no Atlas has that much armor on the front center torso anyway.

Another way to think about it: Atlases have the most armor. They're designed to take a hit or two without dying. Idiots think this means should get hit when piloting them. Why are they idiots? Because they think it's EVER a good idea to get hit. If you think being used for target practice is a good idea you're probably a moron. "Tank" is not a role in MechWarrior, it's a combat vehicle to be stepped on.

Since lots of idiots think that playing "rock-em sock-em robots" is what MechWarrior is all about, and they think the Atlas looks cool they go straight for the Atlas. They also think the Atlas is a brawler. It's not, it's a juggernaut. Same traditional role as the hunchback. Getting the roles confused leads to a lot of Atlas deaths.

Also, as far as firepower goes the Atlas isn't really that great. An Ilya or CTF-4X will generally out-gun an Atlas, especially when it comes to sustained DPS.

 

An Awesome generally has low hard points, and the lack of ballistics and an obligation to put the biggest, hottest weapons, as well as an XL engine with huge side torsos makes it very predictable and since they're usually missile boats 70% of the time, make them pretty non-intimidating.

A Battlemaster is totally different. The Phoenix variant usually runs 2 AC/5's and 6 medium lasers with a possible PPC (a build I default to) and are very dangerous with the pinpoint alpha they can put on you with sustained DPS on their side. Even ERLL builds have them very high up on the torso, almost as bad as a stalker, so you can't underestimate these buggers early on or as long as you are unable to flank these things.

Also their hitbox is vastly superior than the Awesome, allowing it to safely torso twist and spread the damage around very well. Even the missile boats have at least 4 medium lasers, if not 2 large and 2 mediums, and are more than capable of finishing weakened opponents with pinpoint lasers at mid-range while baiting you in for a brawl under their terms, to negate its low mobility and lack of torso twist.

Also, more and more atlas pilots are driving fire support builds that lack a punch in the mid to late game, or if they're forced into a brawl. Nothing is going to back off from 2 MLs and an AC/20 on a lumbering, slow mech after their 3 LRM 15's can't do a thing as it's ECM is wasted on protecting only itself.Even a 50 ton mech is going to have the sustained DPS and mobility capable of outplaying the damn thing.

 

I think the only thing I disagree with here is the firepower. An Atlas in direct attack mode has MUCH more sustainable firepower than any Heavy I have driven at least in Alpha. A PROPERLY built Atlas can still have way over 70 Alpha and over 30% heat which is more than enough to give anyone fits. Lets face it there is no substitute for tonnage when it comes to firepower...more tonnage means bigger boom plain and simple. Not many mechs can have an 80 alpha while also keeping 30% heat efficiency. Most heavies struggle to get around 60 Alpha while maintaining some semblance of heat efficiency.
Lets take the Ilya that was mentioned and load out its 3 LBX 10 build. The best you can hope for with this Ilya build is 3 LBX 10 and 3 MLas. The Atlas DD I drive has 2 LBX-10 (yes 1 less) but also has 3 SRM-6s and 2 Large Lasers. (I wont go into my AC20, 2 LPLas and 3SRM6s Atlas) Lets put that into perspective; Each SRM6 has more alpha than a single LBX10 so in reality the Atlas has 5 and a half LBX-10s worth of alpha to the Ilyas three and that's without even going to the large lasers. Lets not kid ourselves the firepower on the Atlas is pure insanity if built for a brawl. It isn't the mech itself I have issues with its the lack of skill shown by most pilots WITH it.

 

May I ask how you are arming your atlas?

Atlas has high damage, but not the highest damage. It has the highest armor, but that is not as much as some new atlas pilot would think. An atlas is slow and clumsy, which requires support from other mech as it charges from cover to cover, moving the line.

If you see a lone atlas (or almost any bigger mch) rushing forwards chances are it would be over in a few seconds cause everyone will alpha the daylight out of it.

Personally A good atlas in a sustain dps setup is as scary as a high alpha setup. The thing is that atlas is not easy to pilot effectively. For the n00bs it is just to rush in and do the highest damagebefore exploding. They forget the fact that they are like the centerpiece of a battleline.

Oh, on battlemasters, they are totally unlike unawesomes and more like a stalker. Battlemasters have high damage output other than energy weapons, and they do not have such a huge hitbox. Going std engine and they are sturdy too. They might be abit slow, but ignoring them would be a bad idea.

 

Good Atlas.Pilots don't go solo and expose themself to the enemy.Team. But they spot & take out enemy.pilots who are soloing. In 1v1 close Range it's no fun to face a 70+Alpha Atlas, unless you have high Speed.

 

Here is my theory on this; new players look at the Atlas and see "Wow, 100 tons, biggest size, more armor, heaviest weapons, most expensive. Yeah I should be safe in that. I shall be the most bad ass mofo on the battlefield in that". Then when they actually get out onto the battlefield they firmly believe that the 100 ton mech is a god machine and they are indestructible.

I see it time and time and time again.

They romp around the battlefield, cresting ridges and highlighting themselves on the ridgeline/horizon, they walk out into the open, they move away from their team mates or they get left behind and can't catch up due to extremely slow speeds then they get ripped apart.

I LOOK for pilots like this because I know that I can inflict serious damage on them and take them down relatively easy, especially if working with a lance on TS3.

On the flip side of that; if you find a competent Atlas pilot (and there are perhaps a dozen or so that I am aware of) and they are working as a part of a group? Look out!!! Cause that mofo will rip you up when you come around the corner and find him and his mates standing there waiting.

I really think they should reinstitute the glowing eyes of the Atlas for veteren/elite players. Sort of like an upload/upgrade cause when you reach a certain skill level 100 tons becomes lethal.

 

Sounds like I should take some time off from my other projects and update my Atlas guide with videos. Has it really gotten that bad with the Atlas pilots? I've been very absent from the field for a month or so I can't tell really.

 

I have a few different builds I dink around in on that rare occasion I feel like running an assault. I actually prefer 1 ton less of SRM ammo for 1 more ton of AC20 ammo. The point I was trying to make is that you can do almost anything you can imagine with the firepower thanks to the tonnage so the mech is a beast its usually just let down by the pilot. By the way lol these are not the best builds just some of the ones that suit my playstyle.

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=17&l=cd9122ab4c18b54d964117de40416ec0154678cc

Or this one
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=17&l=29eb2041ff9ec9a4c9c48b783e30eadd621be734

Or this one
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=17&l=e2c9cae1382e5ea76be47fa3d8cd05c3f5ac6fc1

Or this one
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=17&l=6a9cb2caba50c40a39fa8882fe8c2160c6e8ee89

Or this one
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=17&l=07fd015065b4c4e5d5dbf36af751538d88d1a98f

And finally this one
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=17&l=bd01802d9e847507eb2267285b6c123e71250496

 

The highest DPS of any of those builds is 6.11. Their alpha is certainly quite high, but they run into issues when people try to get into sustained fights with them. Many Atlas pilots think they can continually fight and be effective, instead of picking a target, walking out of cover, destroying one component, and walking back to cover/staying with team.

This rather typical CTF-4x wins for sustained damage.
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=44&l=d51b2748d4675156d3e93be1b0ebda62b1750708

Clearly it's in the best interests of the Atlas pilot to use the damage effectively, and allow the heavies more time to DPS. This doesn't happen very often, instead Atlas pilots just skyline themselves on a ridge and die to initial contact with the enemy.

 

I've seen this, too. New(?) Atlas pilots don't seem to understand the limitations of the 'mech. Atlases don't climb or turn well. Therefore, they do poorly in terrain with changes in elevation or in dense urban environments.

 

I actually get excited when I PUG drop with a founder Atlas.... It has happened to me a few times. Grab a buddy, follow that guy around and just watch the opposition start to drop. hear: Keep the fast guys off his back :angry: in the process, and you get a very enjoyable drop... especially if he knows how to soak damage.

As for the other guys?!!!
It's too bad that there isn't the option in this game to allow for team training scenarios... something that would allow for the training that would not impact your rating. Grab up those nugget Atlas pilots and train them to pilot the mech before unleashing them into the wild...... or something

 

There is no reason an Atlas has to Alpha and hide it can still dish out DPS like crazy as long as the pilot uses his brain. Any decent pilot knows no matter which mech you are in you need to use cover and opportunity to your advantage and that seems to be where I see most of the problems with Atlas drivers.

You can say DPS vs Alpha for every single mech in the game. I think any reasonable person would say the Atlas has firepower to spare which is important to keep in the fight. I built the below setup in about 30 seconds (personally not my style not enough ammo) so yes the Atlas CAN do dps it can also double the alpha of that Cataphract. Any build needs to be a combination of things and trade-offs. I can Alpha for 84 damage 3x before over heating on some builds do you think the (insert Heavy here) will survive long enough for its slightly higher DPS and low alpha to matter? But I know sustained fights makes that too hot so I find a happy medium. High alpha but not the max and higher DPS but not the max but more a combination of the two. This isn't an alpha versus dps post but you just can't avoid the fact the Atlas has 30 tons on a heavy, tons it can use for armor, weapons etc.

If that Cataphract and this Atlas met in a dark alley which do you think would emerge alive, both pilots being equal? There is just no getting around the combination of tonnage and armor the Atlas has or any assault has. This post could be about virtually any assault in the game (I say assaults because your teammates usually look to the assaults to drive the fight or hold ground over any other weight class) just ask yourself this is it better to have a guy with 70+ alpha and decent cooling alive on your team or dead?

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=17&l=57a96a9d4a677f1cad1bb98006044d4f35faa82f

This post has nothing to do with extolling the virtues of the Atlas or a contest about which mechs are better (personally I prefer heavies) it is a post about people who think just because they drive the Atlas they are invulnerable and end up robbing the team of a large amount of firepower when they die quickly and often due to the fact they are assaults and the team looks up to them they often lead their team into certain death.

 

Exactly! It's about the players. The typical heavy player knows he's somewhat fragile and slow and needs to stay safe to DPS, the Atlas pilot forgets that he can't DPS when dead.

 

Lol, I remember the first time I saw those eyes.... My first inclination was just to run.

 

I don't drive my Atlas much anymore because I wanted to be a Highlander pilot even before Highlanders were announced. That being the case when I do break the old girl out I run her like this:

AS7-D-DC

I certainly don't do anything really foolish, but instead do things like ambush enemy mechs by just waiting right around a building corner, or tanking in the middle of a group on a push. Even with ECM, cover is your friend as when you pilot an Atlas you put a HUGE target on yourself.

 

I personally deem myself a decent Atlas pilot. My D, RS and my DD-C are beasts but my DD-C is especially amazing to me.

I remember that my group and I lost a few matches in a row and then said "fuck it". Two of us hopped into identical Atlai builds and smashed everything for 5 matches in a row with 4 LB 10s and 6 SMR4s... on Conquest.

As for the issue at hand, I have seen it myself. Firstly, I blame PGI. The Champion Atlas is a horrendous choice, especially after the Gauss changes. New Players have no idea about locking on with LRMs (no tutorial) and I have seen them being unable to handle the charge up of the Gauss (again, no tutorial)

Secondly, I blame a lack of common sense. There are four sorts of Atlas pilots:

1) Those who know what they do and may spearhead an attack but never alone. May have an off day.
2) Thew new player who has no idea what he is doing. Fires LRMs in a brawl and other fun stuff. Does not know better, may learn but needs guidance.
3) The derpy l33t. He deems he is invincible in his 100 tons behemoth and runs into the meat grinder giggling happily.
4) The coward. More than once have I seen an Atlas pilot crying out for others to move ahead. They are afraid of their wonderful paintjob and don't want to risk anything unless they are sure that the enemy is utterly busy and distracted before they stomp in.

There are obviously intermediates and grey lines but that's what I feel.

That said, whenever I see an RS(C) with stock loadout I start to smile and begin to chant "free kill".

 

Well, the RC(c) is not the worst when it comes to stock.
minimum change is needed to make it reasonable and deadly.
http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=92&l=5d20381bb9ccb668dae298099ccb077cd4670de1
Then gain I don't like LRM in atlas. Atlas should be in the frontline, not lobbing LRM in the back.

 

I'm not sure if Atlas drivers have lost their minds but I do die a little inside every time I see a DDC on my team that doesn't have a ECM installed. I've seen this a lot the past week or so.

Once even stands out in my mind, on just entering a match while I'm leveling my Kintaro 18 I notice the DDC in my lance doesn't have ECM so I ask why and he says he needs the tonnage. We're in River City and go upper, he gets LRMed to death with my AMS justa chattering away beside him standing in the open while I'm standing behind a tall building. He did right around 60 damage and I did mid-600's with 3 kills and 6 assists.

When I see the Atlas C's stomping about on the opposite team I'll touch them so I get an assist but don't spend resources or time to outright kill them right away. Usually other targets are more important to me than what is most likely a new guy. If he brings me under fire though he's got to go.