What mech to get? Is the Atlas D-DC going to be worth it post BAP-buff?

I started playing MW:O about a week ago and I'm enjoying it a great deal so far. In true F2P fashion I've already picked up the Cicada X-5 and the Centurion Wang so I can make lots of money while I get used to the game.

I'm finally getting to the point where I want to buy (with C-bills) my first mech and I'm having trouble picking one out.

My original plan was to get an Atlas D-DC. An Atlas is an Atlas, and nothing else is. It's the only Inner Sphere mech I care about, I've never much cared for their other mechs.

My friend who's been playing MW:O for weeks told me about an "ECM Atlas" back when it released, and I pretty much decided then that IF I ever played that it would be the mech for me.

So here I am, playing MW:O with about 14 mill C-bills in my pocket, getting ready to buy my Atlas D-DC.



My concern now is the changes coming to ECM, specifically, how strongly BAP is going to counter it: http://www.mechspecs.com/showthread.php?1167-May-21st-Weapons-ECM-BAP-Tweaks-and-MOAR!

Any mech can run BAP, and BAP is going to hard counter ECM the way running ECM in counter-mode did before? I know it'll be a little while before this change shakes out, but my knee-jerk reaction is to stop caring so much about ECM when any mech will be able to counter it for the low, low price of 1.5 tons.



So I wanted to get some feedback from you guys here, as I kind of trust these forums for useful feedback more than the official ones

Do you guys think that ECM will still be a viable tool once the BAP-buff hits?

Even without the ECM I kind of like the versatility of the D-DC variant, it can run a decent assortment of any weapon-type, and it has the best missile loadout of any Atlas.

If not an Atlas, I'd like something that has a good deal of versatility as far as being able to run as a brawler, long/short-range, tanky, whatever.

Open to any suggestions, but I want to stick with assaults and maybe heavies.

/endWallOfText

 

I actually think the D-DC will be more of a ranged support Mech than a brawler support mech in the upcoming patch. Gauss, 2xLL, and an LRM 20 for long range, with Gauss, 2xLL, and 2xSRM6 for short-range will make a mean combination, and ECM protects your teammates from LRMs and makes it a bit harder to snipe them.

I think for the first week of the patch, everyone will be running BAP, so people will take ECM off, and after a bit it will balance out. People will stop seeing ECM-boating teams, so BAP will come off to fit that extra half ton of armor and ton of ammo (or whatever). At that point, ECM will be good at long range, hit-or-miss up close.

As to taking ECM out of the equation for the D-DC, it has more missiles, but less energy weapons than any of the other Atlai. Like the RS it has no zombie option. The AS7-D has the same ballistic options, but one less missile bay for more energy power (not quite double unless you were running MLs in the D-DC), and the AS7-K has arguably the worst hardpoints. The AS7-RS is probably going to rise to the top for the near future, because 1) it can fit 4 of any type of energy weapon and 2) zombie builds are still cored CT pretty quick anyway right now. The D-DC still has an extra module slot.

In my opinion, it will be RS > D-DC > D >> K next patch.

 

I don't think BAP will make much difference to the D-DC.

ECM does a bunch of thing (hence why it has been overpowered and they keep adding nerfs.)

* It disables radar and lockon at close range (anti-SSRM)
* It makes you untargetable without TAG at long range (anti-LRM)
* It hides you and nearby units on the radar (stealth)

The BAP change only disables ECM up to 150m. Thus it is a counter to the anti-SSRM feature. Atlases never really cared too much about that. The anti-LRM and the stealth was a much bigger factor for them. The BAP change is going to be a much bigger deal with lights. Now every team is going to want at least one BAP on their light squad. The JNR-D will probably make a big comeback and the X-5 will turn into an incredible light hunter (4ML, 2SSRM, BAP.)

Now for your assault choices... don't buy anything right now. The BAP change probably won't shake up the assault metagame too much. The PPC change could potentially be a big deal. Currently, I would say the AS7-D-DC and the HGN-732 are the two best assaults. All that can change quite a bit depending on how effective the PPC nerf is. The highlander vastly outperforms the Atlas at a range. The Atlas has low arms, a huge profile, and tends to be kind of slow. If it wants to snipe it has to expose itself. The Highlander on the other hand can utilize jump jets to snipe with minimal exposure (those things are great in a brawl too.) You also have Stalkers with super high mounted arms very capable of peekaboo sniping.

The assault metagame is currently defined by PPCs, so this next patch (on the 21st) has the potential to shake things up in an unpredictable manner. Plus some of those assaults (the 732) can cost upwards of 18-19mil. So save up and wait just a little bit more. If you absolutely must buy a new mech right now, go for the CN9-A. It is a great all around mech that will probably be great for a long time.

 

My concern with ECM on the Atlas was that any enemy with a BAP that closes to 150m disables your stealth and anti-LRM. Any light with a BAP can negate your ECM coverage by just getting near you.

I'm not in a huge need to buy a mech now, I can still have fun in my Cicada and Centurion, but I am definitely starting to look at what assault to pick up first. I know that sniping is the current meta, but I hate it. I'd much rather play something else. The Atlas D-DC is a bad sniper, but I think it's one of the most versatile mechs (especially with the option of ECM and an extra module) which is why I was leaning towards it.

 

While that is possible, it will require teamwork. Even then, you're talking about an Atlas, so 1.5 tons isn't a huge deal. If your team can take down/chase away the light, then you go back to being covered.

I still say that (depending on your approach), the D-DC is probably in the top 2 Atlas wise, even without ECM. This is similar to how the COM-2D has more missiles than any other mech, the SDR-5D would still be better than 5K and 5V if it didn't have ECM (although 5K might be interesting next patch...I'll be rebuying one), and the RVN-3L blows the other ravens out of the water with engine speed.

 

The D-DC tends to play as some form of brawler. Which means you usually have an approach phase and a combat phase. You are far more likely to have people following close to you on a D-DC due to the ECM bubble. Going straight for the D-DC on a light is a pretty ballsy move and most lights won't make that move in pubs. Especially since they are unlikely to have a wolf pack going. Once you get into brawl range, you don't care if they turn off your ECM anymore. You can also brawl without ECM. I've very much liked the HGN-733's brawling performance.

 

I am just curious, it has been 8 months since this discussion. How do you feel about the ECM Atlas now?

Have seen them lately as brawlers and interestingly as long range quasi missile boats,. While running my first couple of mechs tried to stay near for the ECM coverage. Was considering one in the future.

 

I only pilot atlas once or twice in a month, but when I do I always score impressive amount of kills and damage.
So it must be effective.

Assuming the pilot's not doing anything stupid, of course: Have Atlas pilots lost their minds or something?

Best way not to help your team. And it will be worse when tonnage limit will be set since you'll use 100 to fill a role a 65t can do better, while weakening your front line.
An atlas is meant to lead the front line, protecting its weaker (but damage dealers) teammates with it's heavy armor as well as with its ECM. Not staying 400m behind.
The DDC's missile hardpoints have respectively 10+6+6 tubes, it's definitely not for LRM use - an LRM15 for example will be unload in 3 volleys, making it more vulnerable to enemy's AMS. It's a job for a Catapult or, if you want an assault mech, an Awesome or a Battlemaster.

The worst thing about all this is that players piloting LRM oriented DDCs, well, they deal damage. And how could it be different? they're hidind behind covered by ECM, of course they're not the primary target of a PUG team. But while our Atlas is happily dealing his damage, his team is being stomped because they can't tank. And eventually the enemy will turn its fire on the remaining Atlas, destroying him in less than 10 seconds.
The Atlas pilot might even call his teammates stupid noobs, because he really has no shame at all. And since he easily dealt 500+ damage he would never imagine his playstyle is a major tactical fault.

tl;dr: LRM oriented DDC's are for selfish players (that should play solo games).

 

First thing I did with my DDC... strip the missles. If you are playing the mech correctly you won't get many shots with an LRM anyway. I'm not an assault pilot, but the formula I follow while running my DDC Atlas in pug drops.

• Wade in
• Pick off the most damaged mech on the field (causing fear, and getting my self Alpha'd)
• Once I'm the main target, soak damage and dish as much out as possible while the heavies and mediums do their job
• Break engagement
• Lather, rinse, repeat

It usually does pretty good for me with my 1x AC20, 2x LLas, 3x SSRM2, ECM, STD350 build.
I'm not so good at racking up damage in it, but kills come fairly easy... I don't really know why someone would turn this mech into a missle boat.

 

Nothing wrong with LRMs on a DC, if they are not the primary or secondary weapon system. A single LRM20 (if you have a 10 tube) can be a good choice on a Atlas if you have the spare tonnage after energy and ballistic.

Simply as a damage dealer while walking up to the brawl.

 

Indeed Lan.
I really don't mind a single LRM20. My rant was more about triple LRM15s plus ERLLas and/or gauss that turn their Atlas into a support mech.